FANDOM


  • We clearly do not have a community consensus on either of these things, and I believe they are tied together. First I will state what I believe. I believe the Coven of Eight (consisting of Gothel, Drizella, Regina, and 5 unknown witches) cast the curse. All 8 were needed, and Gothel/Drizella seemed to get what they wanted from the curse (and were awake, unlike Regina), but couldn't cast the curse without the other witches. Regina did not cast the curse alone, nor did it do what she would want, so I don't believe it should be listed as her curse. As for the Coven itself, we have two sets: Set 1 is the Eight who cast the curse (Gothel, Drizella, Regina, and 5 unknown witches). Set 2 would be Gothel, Anastasia, the 5 unknown witches, and another unknown character. Set 2 is still be established, and through that, should reveal the mystery witches from Set 1. So I believe we should list the coven this way, as it is easier to understand, and also explains that Regina is one of the witches for the purpose of casting the curse. So let me know what you agree and disagree with and lets try to reach a consensus for these two pages:

    http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Curse

    http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Coven_of_the_Eight

      Preparing Editor Spell
    • The Dark Curse

      Two different questions, only one display which limits the response.

      1. Who worked in casting the spell? What is considered "casting"?

      2. Who's curse is it?

      The answer the last one is obvious. This Dark Curse (Season 7) is Drizella's Curse. It's her desire being realized. It's her wish being granted. When Snow wanted to go to SB, it's her curse. When Regina wants to go to the LWM, it's her curse. When Pan wants to create a new Neverland, it's his curse. When Fiona wants to use the curse to destroy realms and gain more power, it's her curse. When Hook wants a fancy way to get to SB, it's his curse.

      The controversial part is "Who cast it? What do we mean by casting?"

      Is it by final ingredient? Well, Zelena and Emma dropped in the final ingredient, but we don't consider them as the caster.

      Is it the one who does most of the work? Regina did about 99% of the work, all Snow did was crush a heart.

      Is it about who crushes the heart? What if there isn't a heart? 

      The Coven Members

      Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch. And leave her in a section called "Former Members" and list her as coerced. Add Drizzy to that as well. Gothel and potentially Ana would be Active Members.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      The Dark Curse

      Two different questions, only one display which limits the response.

      1. Who worked in casting the spell? What is considered "casting"?

      2. Who's curse is it?

      The answer the last one is obvious. This Dark Curse (Season 7) is Drizella's Curse. It's her desire being realized. It's her wish being granted. When Snow wanted to go to SB, it's her curse. When Regina wants to go to the LWM, it's her curse. When Pan wants to create a new Neverland, it's his curse. When Fiona wants to use the curse to destroy realms and gain more power, it's her curse. When Hook wants a fancy way to get to SB, it's his curse.

      The controversial part is "Who cast it? What do we mean by casting?"

      Is it by final ingredient? Well, Zelena and Emma dropped in the final ingredient, but we don't consider them as the caster.

      Is it the one who does most of the work? Regina did about 99% of the work, all Snow did was crush a heart.

      Is it about who crushes the heart? What if there isn't a heart? 

      The Coven Members

      Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch. And leave her in a section called "Former Members" and list her as coerced. Add Drizzy to that as well. Gothel and potentially Ana would be Active Members.

      I agree with almost all of this. The reason I suggested the sets is because we know Ana was not one of the eight witches who cast the curse, and right now the way we are listing it, it is a bit confusing regarding that aspect.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with Esk on both subjects. But I also think that it is Regina who cast the curse, because Drizella said “That’s why you will cast it”. But it’s definetely Drizella’s curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So, the first curse is Rumple's curse, because we wanted to go the LWM to find Baelfire

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • No, it was Regina’s curse, because it served Regina’s wishes, not Rumple. He didn’t even remember his past life during the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Because that's what he wanted. Why would he want to remember if he can do nothing until Emma shows up. In 2x09 he said he was where he wanted to be

      Under Eskaver'mindset, the firts Dark Curse is Rumple's because he made it and he only needed Regina to crush the heart. Exactly the same of Drizella/Regina in 7x10. He only tricked Regina into thinking the Dark Curse was her masterplan but is was actually his plan to get Bae back

      If Eskaver says the 7x10 curse is Drizella's because it was her wish being granted, then the 1x01 is Rumple's because that's his wish being granted

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote: I agree with Esk on both subjects. But I also think that it is Regina who cast the curse, because Drizella said “That’s why you will cast it”. But it’s definetely Drizella’s curse.

      I agree, I think Regina is the curse caster but it’s Drizella’s curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If I needed to clarify (which I was certain to be clear), it’s about whose wishes are fulfilled.

      Regina casted the first Curse and it was her curse/Wish being realized. That isn’t debateable. Otherwise, I’d have put its Gothel’s curse because she was a master manipulator—etc, etc. No dark curse has ever been Rumple’s.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?

      Sort of, but also the fact that the 8 witches were all standing around the floor symbol when Regina gave her blood/magic to activate the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?
      Sort of, but also the fact that the 8 witches were all standing around the floor symbol when Regina gave her blood/magic to activate the curse.

      Oh. I didn't even think of that. I assumed the ingredients were the mossy-looking stuff in the rune carved into the floor.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think it should be considered Drizella’s curse since she crafted it and the caster should be considered the Coven as a whole with Regina. Or at least the EF coven. I think anyone directly involved should count. Just like Nimue, yes Hook cast it directly but Nimue outright said that she was doing it through him. Maybe we should add a new section? For people who had a part in it but didn’t actually do the casting itself. Like Zelena and Emma in the third and fourth curses.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

      You are literally the only person I have seen on this thread and the Coven's page who feels that way about Regina not being part of the Coven. Last I checked this wiki goes with group consensus. If everyone else agrees that Regina was part of the Coven of the Eight to cast the curse, that is what the page has to say.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also again, is Ivy a member? We know Drizella was but we don’t have any proof that Ivy ever was do we? The Coven seemingly hasn’t formed in Hyperion Heights until now so...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Tysonjackson wrote:
      Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

      Yep, 8 people in robes were there, Gothel, Drizella, captured Henry, and 5 others. Henry was just there to get Regina to submit to being a part of the coven for the purpose of casting the curse, which of course she did. Here's the picture that shows the 8 witches (technically the 7 and Henry as the lure for Regina):

      710CovenOfTheEight.png

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

      You are literally the only person I have seen on this thread and the Coven's page who feels that way about Regina not being part of the Coven. Last I checked this wiki goes with group consensus. If everyone else agrees that Regina was part of the Coven of the Eight to cast the curse, that is what the page has to say.

      Then, you're wrong I suppose ^^ What I am reading on the thread is that people are mixing up "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". That's not the same thing.

      Being forced to help someone does not make it a part of the group. The Coven of the Eight is not a page to list people who cast the curse. It is to list the witches that are part of the Coven, the "sisters" as Gothel calls them.

      Now, unless someone really want to argue on the fact that Gothel is considering Regina as one of them... Contrary to Zelena, which we know was a potential candidate for the Coven, Regina has always been their ennemy. I highly doubt that Regina felt being a part of them, or even the other way.

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Tysonjackson wrote:
      Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

      Yep, 8 people in robes were there, Gothel, Drizella, captured Henry, and 5 others. Henry was just there to get Regina to submit to being a part of the coven for the purpose of casting the curse, which of course she did. Here's the picture that shows the 8 witches (technically the 7 and Henry as the lure for Regina):

      Then yes, I’m voting for her being a part of the Coven in the EF. It’s the coven of the Eight. They needed her to be the eighth one.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.

      So, you're saying that you need to be a part of the Coven to cast the Curse?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.
      So, you're saying that you need to be a part of the Coven to cast the Curse?

      Yes, based on what Drizella said ("Eight, actually, and the toughest one to get is magic from a witch who has crushed the heart of the thing she loves most"), along with the fact that all 8 witches were standing around the coven's symbol when the curse was cast.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I originally saw your point Lady, but I'm gonna have to side with Al on this one. The quote is enough for me.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Bouncing off from what Tyson said a little earlier, What if we had a section in the Dark Curse oage called "Casting." This would included each curse and the people involved with casting it and how it was cast. For example, for the First Curse, we'd put Rumple for the TL potion, maybe the failed casting attempt, and how it was cast in a big bon fire. This is just an idea. What do you guys think?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ^Yeah definitely agree (well I’m sure y’all knew that since I mentioned it earlier but still lol). Cause the thing about it is, the casting is more than just activiating it. I still like to bring up the Nimue situation. Hook actually activated the curse but he used the heart of the thing she loved the most. She essentially cast it through him.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      Bouncing off from what Tyson said a little earlier, What if we had a section in the Dark Curse oage called "Casting." This would included each curse and the people involved with casting it and how it was cast. For example, for the First Curse, we'd put Rumple for the TL potion, maybe the failed casting attempt, and how it was cast in a big bon fire. This is just an idea. What do you guys think?

      I agree we could definitly expand info on about the Curses on the page.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So can we change anything on the pages? Clearly people don't think Regina is the sole caster of the curse, and that she should be considered a coven witch (at least for the purpose of casting the curse).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I don't think she should be considered a coven witch. I think the curse was cast by the incomplete Coven of the Eighth plus Regina.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?

      But casting the curse is not a Coven ritual. It requires eight witches, but any witch out of the Coven could have performed it herself if some rules applied

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?
      But casting the curse is not a Coven ritual. It requires eight witches, but any witch out of the Coven could have performed it herself if some rules applied

      How do we know that wasn't a coven ritual? Isn't that pretty speculative to say it wasn't, when all signs point to it was.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • In my personal opinion,

      Caster: Drizella and the Coven
      Only Ingredients: The eight Coven members' combined magic, plus Regina's blood

      This current curse is Drizella's as it fulfilled her desires, and she had help casting it from the Coven. Regina did not cast it, merely her blood was used as the final ingredient to activate the curse, much like a crushed heart was the final ingredient of the original Dark Curses.

      Note that in this instance, activate does not equal caster.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Two things (or more):

      -One, technically, all curses belong to the Black Fairy, seeing as how she created them.

      -Two, can you not use your own heart for the DC? If you are the thing you love most...

      -Anyone think Alice could've been roped into the Covenent to try to save Hook?

      Idk, those are my thoughts

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • -TheWarriorGamer- wrote:
      Two things (or more):

      -One, technically, all curses belong to the Black Fairy, seeing as how she created them.

      -Two, can you not use your own heart for the DC? If you are the thing you love most...

      -Anyone think Alice could've been roped into the Covenent to try to save Hook?

      Idk, those are my thoughts

      None of this deals with the situation at hand.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Pulling from on-screen sources, the following comes from the opening scene of 3x11:

      Emma: Gold, this curse, is it gonna work like the last one?
      Gold: The last one was created to service the Queen's wishes, this [curse] will be done per Pan's desire. I would count on something hellish.
      ...
      Pan: What she did is child's play compared to what I have in mind.

      As we know, the First Curse fulfilled Regina's desires by taking away Snow and Charming's (and everyone else's) happy endings; the Second Curse fulfilled Snow's desire to get back to LWM to find Emma and stop Zelena; the Third Curse fulfilled Hook's desire to return to SB for revenge on Rumple; the Fourth Curse fulfilled Fiona's desires to separate Emma from her family to crush her savior belief.

      The curse's effects are focused on the desires of a central figure, as stated by Gold himself. We know that the S7 curse placed Tremaine in a false sense of being in control and the one behind the curse only to have her come crashing down in the latest few episodes. Who do we know that wanted this to happen: Drizella. Her desires were to make her mother suffer, and place her in a hollow position of power. Hyperion Heights is centred around Drizella's desires. Throughout S7 the curse is also regularly credited to Drizella by the characters.

      Regina was simply blackmailed into providing the final ingredient, her blood. Arguably, it was Drizella and the Coven who "cast" the curse by focusing their magic to give the curse physical form, Regina and the others just watched. The term "cast" has become unclear in this specific instance, much like the term "realm" has been used in multiple contexts throughout the series. This is not Regina's curse, she is a victim as much as Tremaine is. This curse fulfulled Drizella's desires.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickM98 wrote:
      Pulling from on-screen sources, the following comes from the opening scene of 3x11:

      Emma: Gold, this curse, is it gonna work like the last one?
      Gold: The last one was created to service the Queen's wishes, this [curse] will be done per Pan's desire. I would count on something hellish.
      ...
      Pan: What she did is child's play compared to what I have in mind.

      As we know, the First Curse fulfilled Regina's desires by taking away Snow and Charming's (and everyone else's) happy endings; the Second Curse fulfilled Snow's desire to get back to LWM to find Emma and stop Zelena; the Third Curse fulfilled Hook's desire to return to SB for revenge on Rumple; the Fourth Curse fulfilled Fiona's desires to separate Emma from her family to crush her savior belief.

      The curse's effects are focused on the desires of a central figure, as stated by Gold himself. We know that the S7 curse placed Tremaine in a false sense of being in control and the one behind the curse only to have her come crashing down in the latest few episodes. Who do we know that wanted this to happen: Drizella. Her desires were to make her mother suffer, and place her in a hollow position of power. Hyperion Heights is centred around Drizella's desires. Throughout S7 the curse is also regularly credited to Drizella by the characters.

      Regina was simply blackmailed into providing the final ingredient, her blood. Arguably, it was Drizella and the Coven who "cast" the curse by focusing their magic to give the curse physical form, Regina and the others just watched. The term "cast" has become unclear in this specific instance, much like the term "realm" has been used in multiple contexts throughout the series. This is not Regina's curse, she is a victim as much as Tremaine is. This curse fulfulled Drizella's desires.

      You could also argue the curse fulfilled Gothel's desires. She also has reason for wanting to make Rapunzel suffer. Either way though, it is definitly not fulfilling Regina's desires.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If we look at the situation as you put it, then we could also argue that the First Curse is also Rumplestiltskin’s curse, as he wanted to get back to his son. It’s not how we deal with it. Gothel added nothing to the curse, except her magic.

      Regina became Roni because that’s what Drizelle wanted. Gothel remembers everything because that’s what Drizella wanted. Rapunzel thinks she is the caster because that’s what Drizella wanted.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote: If we look at the situation as you put it, then we could also argue that the First Curse is also Rumplestiltskin’s curse, as he wanted to get back to his son. It’s not how we deal with it. Gothel added nothing to the curse, except her magic.

      Regina became Roni because that’s what Drizelle wanted. Gothel remembers everything because that’s what Drizella wanted. Rapunzel thinks she is the caster because that’s what Drizella wanted.

      The First Curse was Regina's. Rumple had an ulterior motive to find his son, hence why he gave it to her to cast.

      The current curse is Drizella's for the reasons stated above. But Gothel has an ulterior motive, hence why she helped Drizella cast it.

      In these curses there was the caster whose desires were fulfilled, but Rumple and Gothel served hidden "benefactor" roles in each curse. It was part of their endgame for each curse to be cast.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickM98 wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote: If we look at the situation as you put it, then we could also argue that the First Curse is also Rumplestiltskin’s curse, as he wanted to get back to his son. It’s not how we deal with it. Gothel added nothing to the curse, except her magic.

      Regina became Roni because that’s what Drizelle wanted. Gothel remembers everything because that’s what Drizella wanted. Rapunzel thinks she is the caster because that’s what Drizella wanted.

      The First Curse was Regina's. Rumple had an ulterior motive to find his son, hence why he gave it to her to cast.

      The current curse is Drizella's for the reasons stated above. But Gothel has an ulterior motive, hence why she helped Drizella cast it.

      In these curses there was the caster whose desires were fulfilled, but Rumple and Gothel served hidden "benefactor" roles in each curse. It was part of their endgame for each curse to be cast.

      I agree with this.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It's been some time, and it seems like the majority thinks it's Drizella's curse and the Coven cast it. Can we change it now?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:
      It's been some time, and it seems like the majority thinks it's Drizella's curse and the Coven cast it. Can we change it now?

      I agree it should be changed, based on the opinions on this thread.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yeah I agree we need to fix it somehow. Everyone seems to mostly agree that it’s not technically Regina’s curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I suggest though that we have a section that mentions all participants/accomplices of the casting. For example: The Blind Witch (Ginger), gnome, ogre, etc, helped Regina cast the first curse. Zelena didn’t help cast Snow’s curse but altered it, same as Emma with Hook’s. And then Nimue with Hook too. She was the unofficial caster since Hook used her love’s heart to do it but she wasn’t the physical caster.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Tysonjackson wrote: I suggest though that we have a section that mentions all participants/accomplices of the casting. For example: The Blind Witch (Ginger), gnome, ogre, etc, helped Regina cast the first curse. Zelena didn’t help cast Snow’s curse but altered it, same as Emma with Hook’s. And then Nimue with Hook too. She was the unofficial caster since Hook used her love’s heart to do it but she wasn’t the physical caster.

      In these cases it's only a matter of ingredients.

      In the first curse, one of the ingredients was "a lock of hair from those with the darkest souls". They did not help Regina cast the curse, she forced them to provide her with a single ingredient.

      In the second and third curses, Zelena and Emma tampered with Snow and Hook's curses respectively by adding a memory wipe that was not desired by the original casters.

      In the most recent curse, Drizella forces Regina to provide her with a single ingredient, much like Regina did for the group of villains for her own curse.

      None of these people helped cast the curse. The first and current curses are only ingredients given to the caster. The second and third curses were tampered with by a third party.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • That’s what I mean. They did help cast the curse by adding in those ingredients. So I think it should be mentioned in a seperate section (of people who actually cast it) people who participated or had a role in the casting.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It's done. But I'm not sure about Regina and the Coven situation. Have we reached consensus for that?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:
      It's done. But I'm not sure about Regina and the Coven situation. Have we reached consensus for that?

      It's still kind of split, although from what I can tell almost everyone agress that we can say Regina was a coearsted coven member for the purpose of casting the Dark Curse, if nothing else.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:

      I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

      Before you establish that a consensus is happening, I'd like a count with people's usernames :)

      Just to be sure ;)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:

      I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

      Disagree, Regina's magic/blood was only used by the Coven as one of the ingredients to cast the curse. She was blackmailed into participating in their ritual, but it does not make her a member of the Coven.

      I for one am not sure where in the thread you got this idea. From my reading it seems there is broad agreement that Regina participated in the casting ritual through her blood being given, but nothing about anybody agreeing that she was a member of the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickM98 wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

      Disagree, Regina's magic/blood was only used by the Coven as one of the ingredients to cast the curse. She was blackmailed into participating in their ritual, but it does not make her a member of the Coven.

      I for one am not sure where in the thread you got this idea. From my reading it seems there is broad agreement that Regina participated in the casting ritual through her blood being given, but nothing about anybody agreeing that she was a member of the Coven.

      I disagree as well

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickM98 wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

      Disagree, Regina's magic/blood was only used by the Coven as one of the ingredients to cast the curse. She was blackmailed into participating in their ritual, but it does not make her a member of the Coven.

      I for one am not sure where in the thread you got this idea. From my reading it seems there is broad agreement that Regina participated in the casting ritual through her blood being given, but nothing about anybody agreeing that she was a member of the Coven.

      Cado is right. Here, I'll pull the statements from people's posts:

      Esk said:

      "Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch."

      Cado:

      "I agree with Esk on both subjects."

      TheRose:

      "I agree" in responce to Cado.

      OUAT: The Darkness:

      "I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter."

      Tyson:

      "Then yes, I’m voting for her being a part of the Coven in the EF. It’s the coven of the Eight. They needed her to be the eighth one."

      The other people who commented don't think Regina is nessisarily a coven member, but agree she was used in place of one for the purpose of casting the curse, which I would argue makes her at least a temp coven member.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      NickM98 wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      I checked the thread, and about the Regina being a member of the Coven, there are only 2 people who are against it, all the other people agree with CDA's original suggestion. I think we can say that it's a consensus.

      Disagree, Regina's magic/blood was only used by the Coven as one of the ingredients to cast the curse. She was blackmailed into participating in their ritual, but it does not make her a member of the Coven.

      I for one am not sure where in the thread you got this idea. From my reading it seems there is broad agreement that Regina participated in the casting ritual through her blood being given, but nothing about anybody agreeing that she was a member of the Coven.

      Cado is right. Here, I'll pull the statements from people's posts:

      Esk said:

      "Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch."

      Cado:

      "I agree with Esk on both subjects."

      TheRose:

      "I agree" in responce to Cado.

      OUAT: The Darkness:

      "I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter."

      Tyson:

      "Then yes, I’m voting for her being a part of the Coven in the EF. It’s the coven of the Eight. They needed her to be the eighth one."

      The other people who commented don't think Regina is nessisarily a coven member, but agree she was used in place of one for the purpose of casting the curse, which I would argue makes her at least a temp coven member.

      Thanks for explaning CDA. 

      Well then, right now it's 5 vs 4. Any more opinions?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Anyone else have opinions?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think we all agree that the confusion has been provoked intentionally by the authors.

      We have thought responsible for the curse first lady Tremaine, after Drizella, and ultimately we know Gothel was manipulating her for her purposes.

      There is a fundamental fact we need to consider. This curse is not similar to the previous.

      This is cerimonial magic.

      All magic comes with a price.

      When you are alone, and so the only one responsible for your magic action, it is easy to find whose is the curse: it is the curse of the one Who is paying the price for it.

      But cerimonial magic requires anyway a payment, a sacrifice. I am waiting to discover what is that.

      My conclusion is that in this case the curse belongs to the entire group of people, the eight. Everybody puts in it an ingredient.

      This doesn't mean that Regina is one of the coven. They can be eight without her, and the eighth maybe was there too...

      Instead, I insist, the mark means you belong to a coven.

      Regina is clearly an enemy of these witches and they had to blackmail her.

      There is also another problem. When the coven rescued, thanks to its power, the petrified Drizella, there are Gothel + 5 witches. They need another one to defeat blood magic.

      All this, of course, only if the authors are close to the rules.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So are going to include Regina or not? I originally thought there was a possibility that she wasn’t but now I don’t. I think Anastasia was her replacement in HH. The witches were Gothel, Leota, Hilda, Sage, Drizella, two others and then Regina in the past and Anastasia in the present.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote: So are going to include Regina or not? I originally thought there was a possibility that she wasn’t but now I don’t. I think Anastasia was her replacement in HH. The witches were Gothel, Leota, Hilda, Sage, Drizella, two others and then Regina in the past and Anastasia in the present.

      Given the dialogue, Ana was not any replacement as Eloise was planning to steal Ana’s magic. (Unless we get context from deleted scenes or new scenes.)

      The only Coven should be that considered as the curse casters with formerly on some, but Ana was neither.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote:
      So are going to include Regina or not? I originally thought there was a possibility that she wasn’t but now I don’t. I think Anastasia was her replacement in HH. The witches were Gothel, Leota, Hilda, Sage, Drizella, two others and then Regina in the past and Anastasia in the present.

      I think if Ana replaced anyone it would be Drizella. Gothel would have to find a new witch to replace Regina as well, but given that the rest of the coven is most likely going to be dead anyway, I don't think it matters much to Gothel at this point.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • What I'm curious about, is why the coven members recieved new identities? They al had a part in casting the curse, and I understood why Drizella and Gothel kep ther memories (It was Drizella's' curse and Gothel was leader), but what benefit did it have to the others, especially because it left them defenseless.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote: What I'm curious about, is why the coven members recieved new identities? They al had a part in casting the curse, and I understood why Drizella and Gothel kep ther memories (It was Drizella's' curse and Gothel was leader), but what benefit did it have to the others, especially because it left them defenseless.

      But, are we sure they kept no memory at all of their previous lives? I mean, I don't recall anything stating one way or another?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote:
      What I'm curious about, is why the coven members recieved new identities? They al had a part in casting the curse, and I understood why Drizella and Gothel keep ther memories (It was Drizella's' curse and Gothel was leader), but what benefit did it have to the others, especially because it left them defenseless.

      I'm going to be  a cynic and say that this question won't be answered, neither is Gothel having the cursed cast. I eman, so far, they presented Gothel as indifferent to the death of the witches as she appears concerned...but then really don't try in any way to stop it, at one point actively leading to Hilda's death.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Considering Jane's tweet, the other witches are not that significant to the storyline:

      https://twitter.com/JaneEspenson/status/983586660276363265

      And she has lost count of who is part of the coven :)

      https://twitter.com/JaneEspenson/status/983587810820018178

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Gusey1397 wrote: Considering Jane's tweet, the other witches are not that significant to the storyline:

      https://twitter.com/JaneEspenson/status/983586660276363265

      And she has lost count of who is part of the coven :)

      https://twitter.com/JaneEspenson/status/983587810820018178

      To be fair to Jane, the show is over.

      But I guess we got excited over nothing. For a wiki, standpoint...I don’t think we can Lost Leota as part of the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • There may still be hope...

      Not saying that Jane Espenson is not telling the truth- but I don't believe the second answer... 

      Really??? You lost count?  There is 8... not 80... and Gothel, Drizella, (who are main characters) and you are 3 so really it leaves 5 to keep track of...

      I'm pretty sure a kindergartener can keep track of 8 names/characters...

      ...and if she's not being honest about the second answer, she may not be honest on the first either

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Suburbanprincess wrote: There may still be hope...

      Not saying that Jane Espenson is not telling the truth- but I don't believe the second answer... 

      Really??? You lost count?  There is 8... not 80... and Gothel, Drizella, (who are main characters) and you are 3 so really it leaves 5 to keep track of...

      I'm pretty sure a kindergartener can keep track of 8 names/characters...

      ...and if she's not being honest about the second answer, she may not be honest on the first either

      She’s being honest. If you think we are going to get the witches they’d either be no one important or dependent on the writers who wrote that particular episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • They really had the Coven built up to be awesome. I wonder if this was another case on them getting distracted on other parts of the story or if they changed it because of the show ending?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Saintfighteraqua wrote: They really had the Coven built up to be awesome. I wonder if this was another case on them getting distracted on other parts of the story or if they changed it because of the show ending?

      Probably didn’t go further than “Who should be in this Coven? We’ve got a name...and I think that’s enough.”

      Toward the topic at hand, I think it probably won’t affect the wiki’s record of it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Saintfighteraqua wrote: They really had the Coven built up to be awesome. I wonder if this was another case on them getting distracted on other parts of the story or if they changed it because of the show ending?

      Probably the former. The writers are typically inconsistent with the story, and just used the coven for a cliffhanger to satisfy fans over the hiatus (which it did).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If OUAT continued until the end of an eighth season it might have given them time to properly flesh out the new characters and the Coven. Alas, while there have been some great episodes, the overarching story feels a little bit too rushed. They've dumped the Coven too soon.

      In my mind, ep1-11 would've formed the backbone of S7 with additional development spread in-between. The series would've focused on developing Gothel and the Coven as the big bads and exploring Tremaine's true story. Lucy would be woken perhaps a few episodes before the finale.

      The series would end with the murder of Doctor Sage and the secret revelation of Lucy's parentage. S8 would explore the Candy Killer antihero plot (and the departure of Drizella and Ana) and the introduction of Facilier/Samdi and Naveen/Drew.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Let’s try to drift the Coven talk to the Which Witch thread as this is more about the Curse casters and the wiki part that we add.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Do we need to remove the Regina discussion there too? It hasn't reached a consensus either way, but last time I remembered most people had voted towards us counting her.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • We still need to come to an agreement on Regina everyone.

      1. Was she the Eighth Witch of the Coven of the Eight during the casting of the Dark Curse.
      2. She doesn't count because she was forced.

      This discussion has been ongoing since December and we only have like a month left on the show now. We need to reach an end.

      I vote option #1.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • IMO Regina casted the curse and was the eighth witch.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote: We still need to come to an agreement on Regina everyone.

      1. Was she the Eighth Witch of the Coven of the Eight during the casting of the Dark Curse.
      2. She doesn't count because she was forced.

      This discussion has been ongoing since December and we only have like a month left on the show now. We need to reach an end.

      I vote option #1.

      It's not really a matter of one or two, it's both.

      She was blackmailed by the Coven to fill the eighth position in order to cast the curse. She was there for the purpose of casting the curse, but she was not actually a member of the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ana was forced...kinda. A member of the coven can be forced but they're still a member.

      Regina is a member. They had 7, they needed the eighth, the said eight ingredients. She was a member for 5 minutes but still a member.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.

      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola is 100% right. Especially when the 8th member of the Coven was always meant to be the Guardian. 719 made it perfectly clear.

      Gothel first tried to recruit Ana cos she was the Guardian. She recruited Tilly cos she is the Guardian.

      They forced Regina into giving them the 8th ingredient. Nothing else.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.
      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.

      That seems to be the best option.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.
      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.

      That seems to be the best option.

      Agreed.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.
      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.

      That seems to be the best option.

      Agreed.

      Agree too.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • But as others have pointed out both Tilly and Anastasia are unwilling recruits. How is that any different from Regina? Like Alice, she was the Eighth Witch.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The show clearly shows that if needed they could’ve had a complete coven there. But instead they only had seven members cause they intended for Regina to be #8 for that period of time.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote: The show clearly shows that if needed they could’ve had a complete coven there. But instead they only had seven members cause they intended for Regina to be #8 for that period of time.

      The 8th member was always meant to be the Guardian. That's pretty much a fact now. Gothel made very clear that she was searching for that person in particular for years.

      And Regina has never been suspected to be the Guardian.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote:
      But as others have pointed out both Tilly and Anastasia are unwilling recruits. How is that any different from Regina? Like Alice, she was the Eighth Witch.

      Because Regina has nothing to do with the Coven. She was not part any of their strange rituals. All she did was to give her blood.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.
      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.
      That seems to be the best option.
      Agreed.
      Agree too.

      Agree with this too.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I said that's absolutely clear in many other threads. She was forced. Never been part of the coven. So let's realize please that there was an eighth member of the coven even before the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also, she, like Alice, technically wasn’t forced. She was given a choice. Let Henry die or join in on casting the curse. Same as Alice.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote: Also, she, like Alice, technically wasn’t forced. She was given a choice. Let Henry die or join in on casting the curse. Same as Alice.

      And that isn't being forced...? So if someone holds a knife to my throat and says "Hand me your money", I wasn't forced because I was given a choice between handing over the money or having my throat slit?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      RedCoatOfficial wrote: Also, she, like Alice, technically wasn’t forced. She was given a choice. Let Henry die or join in on casting the curse. Same as Alice.

      And that isn't being forced...? So if someone holds a knife to my throat and says "Hand me your money", I wasn't forced because I was given a choice between handing over the money or having my throat slit?

      You were under duress, but you still made a choice. So in a court you wouldn't be held liable, but that's not we aren't interested in if Regina would be held liable in a court, we just want to know how to list her on the wiki.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think the  reason Alice counts, while Regina doesn't is because Regina only gave blood, whereas Alice had more a direct contact with the coven - she took part in their ritual and wore their cloak. Regina just happened to give her blood at the same place the witches were located, but she didn't do anything with them directly (if she magically sent her blood to Gothel, from another location, the argument for Regina being a member probably wouldn't occur).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yeah, I think we are weirdly painting with a broad brush.

      Regina was coerced “Join or Henry die”.

      Alice was coerced “Join or Hook die”

      Ana was hardly a member as the Coven didn’t rejoin yet and according to 15, Gothel was just using her to steal her magic.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote:
      I think the  reason Alice counts, while Regina doesn't is because Regina only gave blood, whereas Alice had more a direct contact with the coven - she took part in their ritual and wore their cloak. Regina just happened to give her blood at the same place the witches were located, but she didn't do anything with them directly (if she magically sent her blood to Gothel, from another location, the argument for Regina being a member probably wouldn't occur).

      This!!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      RedCoatOfficial wrote: Also, she, like Alice, technically wasn’t forced. She was given a choice. Let Henry die or join in on casting the curse. Same as Alice.

      And that isn't being forced...? So if someone holds a knife to my throat and says "Hand me your money", I wasn't forced because I was given a choice between handing over the money or having my throat slit?

      I agree that it’s forced but some others said Alice wasn’t forced, so going by that logic Regina wasn’t either.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I get what people are saying about Alice. She wore a coven robe so she’s def a member, while Regina just gave blood. But all in all, there were seven witches in the Coven during 7x10. Who filled the place of #8? ...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: Yeah, I think we are weirdly painting with a broad brush.

      Regina was coerced “Join or Henry die”.

      Alice was coerced “Join or Hook die”

      Ana was hardly a member as the Coven didn’t rejoin yet and according to 15, Gothel was just using her to steal her magic.

      The only reason I mainly count Anastasia is because Gothel used “OUR sisters” when talking to Ana about the robes.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:

      Lola987 wrote:
      I think the  reason Alice counts, while Regina doesn't is because Regina only gave blood, whereas Alice had more a direct contact with the coven - she took part in their ritual and wore their cloak. Regina just happened to give her blood at the same place the witches were located, but she didn't do anything with them directly (if she magically sent her blood to Gothel, from another location, the argument for Regina being a member probably wouldn't occur).

      This!!

      Agree. Plus, Henry had been already poisoned and he was about to die. The only way to keep him alive was to take him in a land without magic. You'd do anything to save your son's life, this is not a choice for a mother. Hook was threatened by a knife. Alice had to choose between her mother and father, but choosing to save hook's life she doesn't allow her mother to kill her father, which is wise, and I think this means she is able to choose both mother and father. She now is a part of the coven, and she'll manage to contain its darkness.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The role of the eighth member had always been reserved for the Guardian anyway. I saw the title's reference to the eighth witch, as the eighth memeber to help cast the curse - Regina.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think we are at the end of the day playing with words and speculation.

      Do we know that the Eight Witch was reserved for the Guardian? No.

      Why can’t we simply have Regina as the Eighth Witch of the Coven as a temporary member. Regina joined the Coven in casting a curse because they needed her magic, same happened to Alice. Do we really need it spelled out for us?

      Especially since it has happened in the same situation and for the same episode time length at this point and we are quick to add Alice as member and dance around with Regina.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: I think we are at the end of the day playing with words and speculation.

      Do we know that the Eight Witch was reserved for the Guardian? No.

      Yes, we do.

      Even if they do no say it as directly as us, that is fairly obvious by now. Gothel only tried to recruit so hard two persons so far: Ana & Alice. And who's the person she was interested before Ana? Rapunzel, cos she thought she was the Guardian.

      Whatever is the spell she is doing in HH, she needs the Guardian who's someone with full magic potential in the LWM, something she lost herself. She needs her spell to work in the LWM, and for that she absolutely needs the Guardian. That's why she was so involved with Ana and did everything possible to get Alice once Ana left.

      The Guardian is the last member of the Coven, no matter how we look at the situation. Regina was forced into giving them blood, nothing else. That does not make her, in any case, a Coven member.

      Anyways, most of us seem to agree on just adding a note about Regina, stating that she is not a member but was forced into giving them her blood.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Myself included. Just saying that I don’t think we have opposition and it’s just tumbling through the desert now.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A note about the coven robe. They may very well had Regina put it on, but it was already on Henry, as part of the trick. So I'm not sure that is a good argument either way.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I understand The Guardian senerio and agree with putting it in Trivia.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      She was the eighth witch in their ritual, no arguing about that, but it doesn't make her a part of the coven. She was forced to help them with one curse - that's it. She didn't join the coven.
      So maybe we don't list her as a coven member, but put what you said here in trivia. Boom, everyone wins.
      That seems to be the best option.
      Agreed.
      Agree too.

      Agree with this too.

      Agree too.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • This thread was cleared up tonight.

      1. It was referred to as Gothel's curse, previously as Drizella's curse, and also during 7x10 as Regina's. So we can safely say the Coven as a whole cast it.
      2. Regina was the Eighth Member. Gothel literally says this.
        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote:
      This thread was cleared up tonight.
      1. It was referred to as Gothel's curse, previously as Drizella's curse, and also during 7x10 as Regina's. So we can safely say the Coven as a whole cast it.
      2. Regina was the Eighth Member. Gothel literally says this.

      Don't worry if people do mental gymnastics around it, though.

      1. I think Gothel's curse was the tree one, though, but I could be mistaken.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lol yes I’m sure there will still be some dissection.

      And I was just going by when Regina said “Gothel’s curse sent us back in time.”

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • RedCoatOfficial wrote: 2. Regina was the Eighth Member. Gothel literally says this.

      And Regina literally says straight afterwards "I'm not much of a joiner." As discussed above, she was the Eighth Witch for the purpose of casting the curse, she didn't actually join the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickM98 wrote:

      RedCoatOfficial wrote: 2. Regina was the Eighth Member. Gothel literally says this.

      And Regina literally says straight afterwards "I'm not much of a joiner." As discussed above, she was the Eighth Witch for the purpose of casting the curse, she didn't actually join the Coven.

      I think we are twisting words for no good reason when the show is deliberate and straightforward.

      Gothel said that Regina was once the Eighth Witch, so she was a temporary member of the Coven. It’s Gothel’s handpicked group, how can we debate who is in her group otherwise? It doesn’t matter if Roni says shes not going to join Gothel now or didn’t want to then. Gothel says that Regina was the Eighth Witch of her Coven once, then that is exactly who she was.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message