FANDOM


  • We clearly do not have a community consensus on either of these things, and I believe they are tied together. First I will state what I believe. I believe the Coven of Eight (consisting of Gothel, Drizella, Regina, and 5 unknown witches) cast the curse. All 8 were needed, and Gothel/Drizella seemed to get what they wanted from the curse (and were awake, unlike Regina), but couldn't cast the curse without the other witches. Regina did not cast the curse alone, nor did it do what she would want, so I don't believe it should be listed as her curse. As for the Coven itself, we have two sets: Set 1 is the Eight who cast the curse (Gothel, Drizella, Regina, and 5 unknown witches). Set 2 would be Gothel, Anastasia, the 5 unknown witches, and another unknown character. Set 2 is still be established, and through that, should reveal the mystery witches from Set 1. So I believe we should list the coven this way, as it is easier to understand, and also explains that Regina is one of the witches for the purpose of casting the curse. So let me know what you agree and disagree with and lets try to reach a consensus for these two pages:

    http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Curse

    http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Coven_of_the_Eight

      Preparing Editor Spell
    • The Dark Curse

      Two different questions, only one display which limits the response.

      1. Who worked in casting the spell? What is considered "casting"?

      2. Who's curse is it?

      The answer the last one is obvious. This Dark Curse (Season 7) is Drizella's Curse. It's her desire being realized. It's her wish being granted. When Snow wanted to go to SB, it's her curse. When Regina wants to go to the LWM, it's her curse. When Pan wants to create a new Neverland, it's his curse. When Fiona wants to use the curse to destroy realms and gain more power, it's her curse. When Hook wants a fancy way to get to SB, it's his curse.

      The controversial part is "Who cast it? What do we mean by casting?"

      Is it by final ingredient? Well, Zelena and Emma dropped in the final ingredient, but we don't consider them as the caster.

      Is it the one who does most of the work? Regina did about 99% of the work, all Snow did was crush a heart.

      Is it about who crushes the heart? What if there isn't a heart? 

      The Coven Members

      Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch. And leave her in a section called "Former Members" and list her as coerced. Add Drizzy to that as well. Gothel and potentially Ana would be Active Members.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      The Dark Curse

      Two different questions, only one display which limits the response.

      1. Who worked in casting the spell? What is considered "casting"?

      2. Who's curse is it?

      The answer the last one is obvious. This Dark Curse (Season 7) is Drizella's Curse. It's her desire being realized. It's her wish being granted. When Snow wanted to go to SB, it's her curse. When Regina wants to go to the LWM, it's her curse. When Pan wants to create a new Neverland, it's his curse. When Fiona wants to use the curse to destroy realms and gain more power, it's her curse. When Hook wants a fancy way to get to SB, it's his curse.

      The controversial part is "Who cast it? What do we mean by casting?"

      Is it by final ingredient? Well, Zelena and Emma dropped in the final ingredient, but we don't consider them as the caster.

      Is it the one who does most of the work? Regina did about 99% of the work, all Snow did was crush a heart.

      Is it about who crushes the heart? What if there isn't a heart? 

      The Coven Members

      Regina should be listed as one that was coerced into being their 8th Witch. And leave her in a section called "Former Members" and list her as coerced. Add Drizzy to that as well. Gothel and potentially Ana would be Active Members.

      I agree with almost all of this. The reason I suggested the sets is because we know Ana was not one of the eight witches who cast the curse, and right now the way we are listing it, it is a bit confusing regarding that aspect.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with Esk on both subjects. But I also think that it is Regina who cast the curse, because Drizella said “That’s why you will cast it”. But it’s definetely Drizella’s curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So, the first curse is Rumple's curse, because we wanted to go the LWM to find Baelfire

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • No, it was Regina’s curse, because it served Regina’s wishes, not Rumple. He didn’t even remember his past life during the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Because that's what he wanted. Why would he want to remember if he can do nothing until Emma shows up. In 2x09 he said he was where he wanted to be

      Under Eskaver'mindset, the firts Dark Curse is Rumple's because he made it and he only needed Regina to crush the heart. Exactly the same of Drizella/Regina in 7x10. He only tricked Regina into thinking the Dark Curse was her masterplan but is was actually his plan to get Bae back

      If Eskaver says the 7x10 curse is Drizella's because it was her wish being granted, then the 1x01 is Rumple's because that's his wish being granted

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote: I agree with Esk on both subjects. But I also think that it is Regina who cast the curse, because Drizella said “That’s why you will cast it”. But it’s definetely Drizella’s curse.

      I agree, I think Regina is the curse caster but it’s Drizella’s curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If I needed to clarify (which I was certain to be clear), it’s about whose wishes are fulfilled.

      Regina casted the first Curse and it was her curse/Wish being realized. That isn’t debateable. Otherwise, I’d have put its Gothel’s curse because she was a master manipulator—etc, etc. No dark curse has ever been Rumple’s.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?

      Sort of, but also the fact that the 8 witches were all standing around the floor symbol when Regina gave her blood/magic to activate the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I agree with Eskaver's views on the matter. I'm a little confused about the needing the 8 witches to cast the curse. Drizella mentions their are 8 ingredients. Are we equating each witch to an ingredient?
      Sort of, but also the fact that the 8 witches were all standing around the floor symbol when Regina gave her blood/magic to activate the curse.

      Oh. I didn't even think of that. I assumed the ingredients were the mossy-looking stuff in the rune carved into the floor.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think it should be considered Drizella’s curse since she crafted it and the caster should be considered the Coven as a whole with Regina. Or at least the EF coven. I think anyone directly involved should count. Just like Nimue, yes Hook cast it directly but Nimue outright said that she was doing it through him. Maybe we should add a new section? For people who had a part in it but didn’t actually do the casting itself. Like Zelena and Emma in the third and fourth curses.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

      You are literally the only person I have seen on this thread and the Coven's page who feels that way about Regina not being part of the Coven. Last I checked this wiki goes with group consensus. If everyone else agrees that Regina was part of the Coven of the Eight to cast the curse, that is what the page has to say.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also again, is Ivy a member? We know Drizella was but we don’t have any proof that Ivy ever was do we? The Coven seemingly hasn’t formed in Hyperion Heights until now so...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Tysonjackson wrote:
      Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

      Yep, 8 people in robes were there, Gothel, Drizella, captured Henry, and 5 others. Henry was just there to get Regina to submit to being a part of the coven for the purpose of casting the curse, which of course she did. Here's the picture that shows the 8 witches (technically the 7 and Henry as the lure for Regina):

      710CovenOfTheEight.png

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      Regina is not a member of the Coven. The members list of this group is not the list of people who cast the DC. Yes, they needed a eighth witch... because it is part of their ritual.  It does not make Regina a part of their group.

      If we want to put the Coven as casters + Regina as coerced to help them, fine. It would work. But Regina has absolutely nothing to do in the list of the Coven members.

      Again, this is a list of people who belong to the Coven, not the list of people who cast the DC.

      You are literally the only person I have seen on this thread and the Coven's page who feels that way about Regina not being part of the Coven. Last I checked this wiki goes with group consensus. If everyone else agrees that Regina was part of the Coven of the Eight to cast the curse, that is what the page has to say.

      Then, you're wrong I suppose ^^ What I am reading on the thread is that people are mixing up "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". That's not the same thing.

      Being forced to help someone does not make it a part of the group. The Coven of the Eight is not a page to list people who cast the curse. It is to list the witches that are part of the Coven, the "sisters" as Gothel calls them.

      Now, unless someone really want to argue on the fact that Gothel is considering Regina as one of them... Contrary to Zelena, which we know was a potential candidate for the Coven, Regina has always been their ennemy. I highly doubt that Regina felt being a part of them, or even the other way.

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Tysonjackson wrote:
      Also, I see both sides of the argument. No, Regina is not an official member of the Coven. But, she was sort of a part of them just for the curse casting. Were there seven other people there? Well actually 5 because we knew Drizella and Gothel’s identities. If there were seven other witches there with Regina, then yes she would technically be considered a member of the Coven.

      Yep, 8 people in robes were there, Gothel, Drizella, captured Henry, and 5 others. Henry was just there to get Regina to submit to being a part of the coven for the purpose of casting the curse, which of course she did. Here's the picture that shows the 8 witches (technically the 7 and Henry as the lure for Regina):

      Then yes, I’m voting for her being a part of the Coven in the EF. It’s the coven of the Eight. They needed her to be the eighth one.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.

      So, you're saying that you need to be a part of the Coven to cast the Curse?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:

      Again, we have to clearly distinguish "members of the Coven" and "people needed to cast the Curse". Not the same thing.

      Where do they say that is not the same thing? Literally everything points to that being the same thing.
      So, you're saying that you need to be a part of the Coven to cast the Curse?

      Yes, based on what Drizella said ("Eight, actually, and the toughest one to get is magic from a witch who has crushed the heart of the thing she loves most"), along with the fact that all 8 witches were standing around the coven's symbol when the curse was cast.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I originally saw your point Lady, but I'm gonna have to side with Al on this one. The quote is enough for me.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Bouncing off from what Tyson said a little earlier, What if we had a section in the Dark Curse oage called "Casting." This would included each curse and the people involved with casting it and how it was cast. For example, for the First Curse, we'd put Rumple for the TL potion, maybe the failed casting attempt, and how it was cast in a big bon fire. This is just an idea. What do you guys think?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ^Yeah definitely agree (well I’m sure y’all knew that since I mentioned it earlier but still lol). Cause the thing about it is, the casting is more than just activiating it. I still like to bring up the Nimue situation. Hook actually activated the curse but he used the heart of the thing she loved the most. She essentially cast it through him.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      Bouncing off from what Tyson said a little earlier, What if we had a section in the Dark Curse oage called "Casting." This would included each curse and the people involved with casting it and how it was cast. For example, for the First Curse, we'd put Rumple for the TL potion, maybe the failed casting attempt, and how it was cast in a big bon fire. This is just an idea. What do you guys think?

      I agree we could definitly expand info on about the Curses on the page.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So can we change anything on the pages? Clearly people don't think Regina is the sole caster of the curse, and that she should be considered a coven witch (at least for the purpose of casting the curse).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I don't think she should be considered a coven witch. I think the curse was cast by the incomplete Coven of the Eighth plus Regina.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?

      But casting the curse is not a Coven ritual. It requires eight witches, but any witch out of the Coven could have performed it herself if some rules applied

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      The 5th curse was cast by the Coven + Regina.

      The Coven is formed of Gothel, Drizella, 5 witches we don't know but Gothel does, and one remaining spot, which hadn't been filled yet. The NEF Coven of the Eight was not complete yet, it was called of the Eight because they needed to find the eighth member. Regina was coerced into taking the place of the eighth member, but that's just replacement for that specific purpose, while they didn't have their eighth witch.

      I can kind of see this point, but if Regina was used to perform a coven ritual doesn't that kind of make her a temporary Coven member, or at least means this point about Regina should be listed somewhere on the Coven's page?
      But casting the curse is not a Coven ritual. It requires eight witches, but any witch out of the Coven could have performed it herself if some rules applied

      How do we know that wasn't a coven ritual? Isn't that pretty speculative to say it wasn't, when all signs point to it was.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • In my personal opinion,

      Caster: Drizella and the Coven
      Only Ingredients: The eight Coven members' combined magic, plus Regina's blood

      This current curse is Drizella's as it fulfilled her desires, and she had help casting it from the Coven. Regina did not cast it, merely her blood was used as the final ingredient to activate the curse, much like a crushed heart was the final ingredient of the original Dark Curses.

      Note that in this instance, activate does not equal caster.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Two things (or more):

      -One, technically, all curses belong to the Black Fairy, seeing as how she created them.

      -Two, can you not use your own heart for the DC? If you are the thing you love most...

      -Anyone think Alice could've been roped into the Covenent to try to save Hook?

      Idk, those are my thoughts

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • -TheWarriorGamer- wrote:
      Two things (or more):

      -One, technically, all curses belong to the Black Fairy, seeing as how she created them.

      -Two, can you not use your own heart for the DC? If you are the thing you love most...

      -Anyone think Alice could've been roped into the Covenent to try to save Hook?

      Idk, those are my thoughts

      None of this deals with the situation at hand.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message