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Why did Rumple die?

  • In the first ep of this season, Felix said that if Rumple went against Pan, he would die. And yes he died.

    He killed Pan with his dagger, not himself. So, how!? I don't get it.

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    • anyone? please?

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    • The dagger stabbed both of them, so since it's the dark ones dagger it killed Gold aswell

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    • Hybridman wrote:
      The dagger stabbed both of them, so since it's the dark ones dagger it killed Gold aswell

      Exactly. Mr. Gold did not just stab Pan, he stabbed himself in the process. That's why he gave that whole speech to Neal and Belle about how much he loved them but couldn't be with them. Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did. And Mr. Gold, on more than one occasion, has also said the same vice versa. The dagger scene was basically this coming true. They both had to die for Pan to be eliminated.

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    • I think he'll return.

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    • Know Every about cp wrote:
      I think he'll return.

      yup

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    • Actually, they will have to explain this a bit more. I remember when Peter Pan wakes up in 3x11 he said something like " I thought you would kill me in my sleep laddie. I think you have changed ...." How is it possible for Rumple to kill him in sleep?

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Actually, they will have to explain this a bit more. I remember when Peter Pan wakes up in 3x11 he said something like " I thought you would kill me in my sleep laddie. I think you have changed ...." How is it possible for Rumple to kill him in sleep?

      This is simple. Pan meant as to why Rumple didn't off him while he was in the sleep state.

      When he was not consious of his surroundings. When he can't see whats happening therefore defend himself. He said this because he thinks Rumple is coward enough to attack him while he is sleeping.

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    • What I meant was that, it means Pan could be killed in his sleep.Therefore it is not right to say that Rumple has to die for sure to kill Pan. It could be that  Rumple has to die only if Pan was conscious enough to defend himself because he was more powerful than Rumple but it seems Rumples death wasn't mandatory requirement for Pan to die.

      Infact Regina also mentioned that for Pan "if we can bleed him, we can hurt him, if we hurt him we can kill him" . Gosh its giving me headache. I don't get it.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      What I meant was that, it means Pan could be killed in his sleep.Therefore it is not right to say that Rumple has to die for sure to kill Pan. It could be that  Rumple has to die only if Pan was conscious enough to defend himself because he was more powerful than Rumple but it seems Rumples death wasn't mandatory requirement for Pan to die.

      Infact Regina also mentioned that for Pan "if we can bleed him, we can hurt him, if we hurt him we can kill him" . Gosh its giving me headache. I don't get it.

      Well, Rumple constantly advised Regina and the others that they don't know what they are up against. He reminds the others that only he can destroy Pan only if he dies as well.

      What Regina said may just be an assumption. She thinks Pan is just some teenager.

      But doesn't know of his true power. In Nasty Habits after Bae shot Pan with an arrow, Pan said: "We've been thru this before Baelfire. Have you learned nothing" Which means its no easy task to kill Pan. Bae tried it. And I assume the Darlings tried it too.

      If Rumple keeps reminding the others that Pan can be killed only if Rumple gives his life then its safe to assume Rumple would still have to die even if he caught Pan in a defensless sleep.

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    • If you all would look at both counterparts of Rumpel you would see that it says he is still alive in the Enchanted Forest but dead in Storybrooke.

      In the dagger scene Mr. Gold (Not Rumpel) calls down his shadow which goes into him while he's holding Pan. Since him and Pan both don't have shadows and their so tightly embraced, the shadow goes into both of them, considering them to be one person. So, they shared the same shadow at that point.

      Rumpel then stabs the dagger into them. The dagger is so long that it piercers both of them. By doing this, the Dark One's power is transferred to Pan, turning him back into Malcolm. Since the dagger is also piercing Malcolm the power is transferred back to Mr. Gold but he is already basically dead so thus the Dark One line is ended.

      I highly doubt that this will affect anything that happens in the Enchanted Forest. Regina made it so that it was as if the Dark Curse never happened. Therefore, everything that happened in Storybrooke basically never happened. So therefore, Rumpel will most likely appear in the Enchanted Forest.

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    • Tristan Shelton wrote:
      If you all would look at both counterparts of Rumpel you would see that it says he is still alive in the Enchanted Forest but dead in Storybrooke.

      In the dagger scene Mr. Gold (Not Rumpel) calls down his shadow which goes into him while he's holding Pan. Since him and Pan both don't have shadows and their so tightly embraced, the shadow goes into both of them, considering them to be one person. So, they shared the same shadow at that point.

      Rumpel then stabs the dagger into them. The dagger is so long that it piercers both of them. By doing this, the Dark One's power is transferred to Pan, turning him back into Malcolm. Since the dagger is also piercing Malcolm the power is transferred back to Mr. Gold but he is already basically dead so thus the Dark One line is ended.

      I highly doubt that this will affect anything that happens in the Enchanted Forest. Regina made it so that it was as if the Dark Curse never happened. Therefore, everything that happened in Storybrooke basically never happened. So therefore, Rumpel will most likely appear in the Enchanted Forest.

      1. Mr. Gold and Rumplestiltskin are the same person.

      2. Nothing can bring back the dead, not even magic.

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    • Tristan Shelton wrote:
      If you all would look at both counterparts of Rumpel you would see that it says he is still alive in the Enchanted Forest but dead in Storybrooke.

      He's still listed as "alive" on Rumplestiltskin's page because the wiki counts counterparts separately even though he is the same person as Mr. Gold. Mr. Gold is counted as dead because Rumplestiltskin technically died as Mr. Gold and not as his FTL counterpart. Same deal with the Huntsman and Graham. He died as Graham, so Graham is counted as dead. The Huntsman is still considered alive in the past sense since he is Graham's former identity. 

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    • Applegirl wrote:
      Hybridman wrote:
      The dagger stabbed both of them, so since it's the dark ones dagger it killed Gold aswell
      Exactly. Mr. Gold did not just stab Pan, he stabbed himself in the process. That's why he gave that whole speech to Neal and Belle about how much he loved them but couldn't be with them. Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did. And Mr. Gold, on more than one occasion, has also said the same vice versa. The dagger scene was basically this coming true. They both had to die for Pan to be eliminated.

      "Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did"

      But why?? I don't get it.

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    • Maynaleen wrote:

      "Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did"

      But why?? I don't get it.

      With all the talk about Blood Magic, it might have something to do with that. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Maynaleen wrote:

      "Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did"

      But why?? I don't get it.

      With all the talk about Blood Magic, it might have something to do with that. 

      I think it might have something to do with the "Dark One powers"

       Watch the scene of Rumples death closely. He and Pan are in an embrace when he skewers Pan. Because of the close embrace, the dagger goes through Pan and into Rumpel too. And this transfers the Dark One's power to Pan, which turns him old again. Since the Dark One is killing both himself and the next Dark One to be, the cycle is broken and both of them disintegrate into light and die. This was Rumpel's plan to kill Pan all along, and also his "undoing" that the prophecy spoke of. 

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Maynaleen wrote:

      "Pan has stated before that he couldn't die unless Mr. Gold did"

      But why?? I don't get it.

      With all the talk about Blood Magic, it might have something to do with that. 
      I think it might have something to do with the "Dark One powers"

       Watch the scene of Rumples death closely. He and Pan are in an embrace when he skewers Pan. Because of the close embrace, the dagger goes through Pan and into Rumpel too. And this transfers the Dark One's power to Pan, which turns him old again. Since the Dark One is killing both himself and the next Dark One to be, the cycle is broken and both of them disintegrate into light and die. This was Rumpel's plan to kill Pan all along, and also his "undoing" that the prophecy spoke of. 

      but how does the dagger work? Rumple got his powers because he was tricked into killing the current dark one. You get the dark one's powers by killing the dark one with that dagger. that's how it works.

      If pan got the dark one powers, that means that he was the one who killed rumple. but he wasn't! rumple did it himself by stabbing himself through pan. The dagger is the only thing that can kill the dark one, and if he does it to himself the dark one line ends. But would a dagger through the heart kill pan? maybe? then why on earth would rumple have to sacrifice himself to do it? he'd already gone so far as to stab pan, he didn't have to stab himself too. 

      And why'd pan's body go back to being old? I guess if he dies as pan his body reverts or something? And even if somehow it counts as him killing rumple (which I doubt it does), the Dark One powers wouldn't revert him back to older form, they'd just add to his current pan powers.

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    • Jaylor wrote:

      but how does the dagger work? Rumple got his powers because he was tricked into killing the current dark one. You get the dark one's powers by killing the dark one with that dagger. that's how it works.

      If pan got the dark one powers, that means that he was the one who killed rumple. but he wasn't! rumple did it himself by stabbing himself through pan. The dagger is the only thing that can kill the dark one, and if he does it to himself the dark one line ends. But would a dagger through the heart kill pan? maybe? then why on earth would rumple have to sacrifice himself to do it? he'd already gone so far as to stab pan, he didn't have to stab himself too. 

      And why'd pan's body go back to being old? I guess if he dies as pan his body reverts or something? And even if somehow it counts as him killing rumple (which I doubt it does), the Dark One powers wouldn't revert him back to older form, they'd just add to his current pan powers.

      I'm not good at explaining things so I stopped debating...

      Thanks you Jaylor this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!!!!!

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    • Maynaleen wrote:
      Jaylor wrote:

      but how does the dagger work? Rumple got his powers because he was tricked into killing the current dark one. You get the dark one's powers by killing the dark one with that dagger. that's how it works.

      If pan got the dark one powers, that means that he was the one who killed rumple. but he wasn't! rumple did it himself by stabbing himself through pan. The dagger is the only thing that can kill the dark one, and if he does it to himself the dark one line ends. But would a dagger through the heart kill pan? maybe? then why on earth would rumple have to sacrifice himself to do it? he'd already gone so far as to stab pan, he didn't have to stab himself too. 

      And why'd pan's body go back to being old? I guess if he dies as pan his body reverts or something? And even if somehow it counts as him killing rumple (which I doubt it does), the Dark One powers wouldn't revert him back to older form, they'd just add to his current pan powers.

      I'm not good at explaining things so I stopped debating...

      Thanks you Jaylor this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!!!!!




      Rumple had to do away with Pan by changing him into the Dark one.

      That is what changed him into older Malcolm and broke the powers of Neverland. So putting his dagger into Pan gave Pan the power, but at the same time taking it away.

      Rumple was free of it by doing away with himself. Clues are all over prior episodes.

      Only "thee dagger" can kill Pan. Even if Pan had both powers. He was bound by the rules of the dagger.

      But Rumple had to die as well to cancell out and therefore break the Dark one curse.


      Its kinda like Aladdin. Al had to change Jafar into the genie in order to defeat him.

      Sure that would make Jafar all powerful. But he was still bound to the rules of the genie.

      eety beety living space ;D

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:

      Its kinda like Aladdin. Al had to change Jafar into the genie in order to defeat him. Sure that would make Jafar all powerful. But he was still bound to the rules of the genie.

      eety beety living space ;D

      Guess, we all know how OUaTiW is ending? ;) "I wish to be, an all-powerful genie!" ~ Jafar

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Maynaleen wrote:
      Jaylor wrote:

      but how does the dagger work? Rumple got his powers because he was tricked into killing the current dark one. You get the dark one's powers by killing the dark one with that dagger. that's how it works.

      If pan got the dark one powers, that means that he was the one who killed rumple. but he wasn't! rumple did it himself by stabbing himself through pan. The dagger is the only thing that can kill the dark one, and if he does it to himself the dark one line ends. But would a dagger through the heart kill pan? maybe? then why on earth would rumple have to sacrifice himself to do it? he'd already gone so far as to stab pan, he didn't have to stab himself too. 

      And why'd pan's body go back to being old? I guess if he dies as pan his body reverts or something? And even if somehow it counts as him killing rumple (which I doubt it does), the Dark One powers wouldn't revert him back to older form, they'd just add to his current pan powers.

      I'm not good at explaining things so I stopped debating...

      Thanks you Jaylor this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!!!!!




      Rumple had to do away with Pan by changing him into the Dark one.

      That is what changed him into older Malcolm and broke the powers of Neverland. So putting his dagger into Pan gave Pan the power, but at the same time taking it away.

      Rumple was free of it by doing away with himself. Clues are all over prior episodes.

      Only "thee dagger" can kill Pan. Even if Pan had both powers. He was bound by the rules of the dagger.

      But Rumple had to die as well to cancell out and therefore break the Dark one curse.


      Its kinda like Aladdin. Al had to change Jafar into the genie in order to defeat him.

      Sure that would make Jafar all powerful. But he was still bound to the rules of the genie.

      eety beety living space ;D

      The only problem is.. you can only become the dark one by killing the current dark one with that dagger. Pan didn't do that though! Rumple stabbed himself through pan. I can't imagine that would count as pan killing rumple, thus transfering to him the powers of the dark one.

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    • Jaylor wrote:
      XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Maynaleen wrote:
      Jaylor wrote:

      but how does the dagger work? Rumple got his powers because he was tricked into killing the current dark one. You get the dark one's powers by killing the dark one with that dagger. that's how it works.

      If pan got the dark one powers, that means that he was the one who killed rumple. but he wasn't! rumple did it himself by stabbing himself through pan. The dagger is the only thing that can kill the dark one, and if he does it to himself the dark one line ends. But would a dagger through the heart kill pan? maybe? then why on earth would rumple have to sacrifice himself to do it? he'd already gone so far as to stab pan, he didn't have to stab himself too. 

      And why'd pan's body go back to being old? I guess if he dies as pan his body reverts or something? And even if somehow it counts as him killing rumple (which I doubt it does), the Dark One powers wouldn't revert him back to older form, they'd just add to his current pan powers.

      I'm not good at explaining things so I stopped debating...

      Thanks you Jaylor this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!!!!!




      Rumple had to do away with Pan by changing him into the Dark one.

      That is what changed him into older Malcolm and broke the powers of Neverland. So putting his dagger into Pan gave Pan the power, but at the same time taking it away.

      Rumple was free of it by doing away with himself. Clues are all over prior episodes.

      Only "thee dagger" can kill Pan. Even if Pan had both powers. He was bound by the rules of the dagger.

      But Rumple had to die as well to cancell out and therefore break the Dark one curse.


      Its kinda like Aladdin. Al had to change Jafar into the genie in order to defeat him.

      Sure that would make Jafar all powerful. But he was still bound to the rules of the genie.

      eety beety living space ;D

      The only problem is.. you can only become the dark one by killing the current dark one with that dagger. Pan didn't do that though! Rumple stabbed himself through pan. I can't imagine that would count as pan killing rumple, thus transfering to him the powers of the dark one.

      It could work. Perhaps the cuff was an important piece to making this happen. Rumples Dark One power was muffled. Therefore allowing the deed to be done.

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    • Or maybe, since the dagger was touching another person while the Dark One was being stabbed, it counted as if he was the next Dark One. I mean, the Dark One powers need the other party not necessarily to actively kill the current D.O. to pass on, but simply someone else touching the dagger while that happens. But since both the former and the new D.O. were dying at the same time, poof, they vanished together.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Or maybe, since the dagger was touching another person while the Dark One was being stabbed, it counted as if he was the next Dark One. I mean, the Dark One powers need the other party not necessarily to actively kill the current D.O. to pass on, but simply someone else touching the dagger while that happens. But since both the former and the new D.O. were dying at the same time, poof, they vanished together.

      Yeah.Like dat ^^  ;D

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    • Still i'm bit sceptical about this theory. Did anyone notice that 'Believe' slogan in OUAT was inspired from Justin Beiber's 'believe' because this how he says "you have to believe" or something? LOL . JB also calls his fans Beliebers like in believers. I think Peter Pan's persona is inspired from JB. XD

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Did anyone notice that 'Believe' slogan in OUAT was inspired from Justin Beiber's 'believe' because this how he says "you have to believe" or something? 

      The story of Peter Pan is over 100 years old.

      The "Believe" solgan, has nothing to do with that punk, Justin Bieber. It was inspired by the original play, and novel. Specifically, the line "clap your hands if you believe".

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Did anyone notice that 'Believe' slogan in OUAT was inspired from Justin Beiber's 'believe' because this how he says "you have to believe" or something? 
      The story of Peter Pan is over 100 years old.

      The "Believe" solgan, has nothing to do with that punk, Justin Bieber. It was inspired by the original play, and novel. Specifically, the line "clap your hands if you believe".

      Oh OK!  Although this version of Peter Pan is evil, it doesn't seem to be inspired from Justin Beiber because Peter Pan is very bright, manipulative teenager. However, King Joffery of GOT is very much like him. Isn't it? XD Maybe JOff's character is inspired from JB who knows? O_O

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    • I can hardly imagine Justin Bieber being inspirational in any way.

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    • I wasn't serious.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      I wasn't serious.

      Then that means, you were spamming. Please, refrain from doing that.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      I wasn't serious.
      Then that means, you were spamming. Please, refrain from doing that.

      Wait, are jokes spam, too, then?

      **This is a serious question I'm not trying to be disrespectful

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      I wasn't serious.
      Then that means, you were spamming. Please, refrain from doing that.


      You know that, I will never listen to you. :D

      BTW. Happy New Year to Everyone. I came around to see after a while. OUAT is taking way to long to come back. :/

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    • No, sincere jokes are not spam. Choc, I appreciate your assistance, but please leave moderating up to the admins/mods.

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    • So, getting back to the question at hand here, WHY did Rumple have to die? was there a prophecy that i missed? is it the blood magic thing? Is it because of the whole "pan is more powerful than the dark one" thing and it was they only way to over power him? cuz im seriously confused.

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    • Rumple believed he had to die to stop Pan. And it was a redeeming sacrifice for him.

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    • So was Henry Rumplestiltskin's undoing or was the boy that caused his undoing actually Peter Pan? I know they all believe it was Henry, but was it really?

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    • That's an excellent question, and the answer remains to be seen. :D

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    • HE'S ALIVE and i am ecstatic! I'm so glad he'sa alive again! we all love rumple.

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    • The dagger went through Pan and into Rumple's heart.

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    • 198.148.15.20
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