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Complicated Wonderland Timeline

  • Hello all!  Hopefully all of you OUaT fans are now fans of the Wonderland spinoff. If you are watching the new show, you must know how complicated the Wonderland timeline must be. It can be interpreted many different ways. So the way the page is now could be heavily debated.

    Please share your opinions and vote on the polls!


    When does Cyrus arrive in Wonderland?
     
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    The poll was created at 21:58 on October 31, 2013, and so far 195 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time BEFORE Cora's Arrival?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 208 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time AFTER Cora's Arrival?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 182 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time BEFORE Regina rescues her father?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 138 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time AFTER Regina rescues her father?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 122 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time BEFORE Cora leaves with Hook?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 142 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time AFTER Cora leaves with Hook?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:05 on October 31, 2013, and so far 134 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time BEFORE Will and Anastasia arrive?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 132 people voted.

    Does Alice visit Wonderland for the first time AFTER Will and Anastasia arrive?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 117 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus BEFORE Cora's Arrival?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 109 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus AFTER Cora's Arrival?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 109 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus BEFORE Regina rescues her father?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 86 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus AFTER Regina rescues her father?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 81 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus BEFORE Cora leaves with Hook?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 80 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus AFTER Cora leaves with Hook?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 78 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus BEFORE Will and Anastasia arrive?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 87 people voted.

    Does Alice meet Cyrus AFTER Will and Anastasia arrive?
     
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    The poll was created at 22:12 on October 31, 2013, and so far 84 people voted.

      Preparing Editor Spell
    • GOSH TO HARD TO BE SURE T_T

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    • Ariee wrote:
      GOSH TO HARD TO BE SURE T_T

      I'm with you on that. Quite hard to tell which event happened before or after. My head is spinning...

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    • They really had to help us to understand. We saw the Knave in Storybooks before the curse was broken, but we don't know if it's like around 1x01 or 1x20 if you understand what I mean '-'

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    • When did we see the Knave in Storybrooke before the curse was broken?

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    • In the first scene, when the rabbit finds him. I guess this is during before the curse was broken because they used curse's name and we saw Emma's car. I know that's could be after, but I really feel like if it was before...

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    • hmm. I'm fairly certain it was confirmed to be during the wraith attack, so it was actually not long after the curse was broken.

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    • GOsh you make all valid questions, but some of them I am  unsure of. I am just casting some of my votes...bt again it is based on my interpretations. Hopefully producers will clarify them. IN fact bring on some more crossover to clarify them. Like for example bring Cora to OuAT:W in flashback like they promised  so we know what was going on. Same bring Will  to flashback in OuAT in some scenes as cameo or something or as a one episode role so we know... I feel that this is going to be LOST all over again...

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    • Personally, I feel that Alice had to have made her first visit to Wonderland AFTER Cora, Jefferson, Will and Anastasia all arrived there.

      I feel that, as long OUAT's version of "Alice in Wonderland" (which we admittedly haven't seen yet) is anything like the original story, these four characters will have to have been in Wonderland for Alice to meet them.

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    • I think Cora will appear in a flashback, with little Alice. I think I read somewhere, but couldn't find where that we would be seeing young girl Alice again. 

      And that Cora will appear because the Red Queen had to learn magic from somewhere.

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    • I'm sorry, but something doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how Alice could have visited for the first time after Regina rescues her father. Here is why. Alice is a small child when she visits Wonderland for the first time. As is Grace when her father goes to Wonderland with Regina. But here is the difference. Alice has time to grow up before the Curse is cast and time is frozen. Grace does not. Her counterpart Paige is the same age in Storybrooke that Grace is when her father is trapped in Wonderland. So the Hatter was trapped in Wonderland within a year of the casting of the curse, in my opinion. Which means there is no way that Alice could have visited afterwards.

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    • At the moment, it is too hard to decide the order of events. IO agree with you about Alice's first time being way before Jefferson leaves Garce. Personally, I think it will be easier to do the timeline after more episodes air (If need be, the first season). 

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    • Yes it will be easier at the end of the season, but it still needs to be done.

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    • Here is a question that throws a wrench into everything: Do you believe people were capable of travelling between worlds while the curse was in effect?

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    • I think people could probably travel to a realm that wasn't effected by the curse.

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    • I thought most of the realms we effected by the curse, otherwise Shouldn't Alice be 28 years older?

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    • Prince of Hearts wrote:
      I'm sorry, but something doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how Alice could have visited for the first time after Regina rescues her father. Here is why. Alice is a small child when she visits Wonderland for the first time. As is Grace when her father goes to Wonderland with Regina. But here is the difference. Alice has time to grow up before the Curse is cast and time is frozen. Grace does not. Her counterpart Paige is the same age in Storybrooke that Grace is when her father is trapped in Wonderland. So the Hatter was trapped in Wonderland within a year of the casting of the curse, in my opinion. Which means there is no way that Alice could have visited afterwards.

      I think you're right about Alice not visiting wonderland for the first time after Regina's rescue quest, I also consider Grace's age to compare how much the mad hatter stayed in Wonderland.

      This is the Timeline I've been thinking.

      - CORA ARRIVES TO WONDERLAND

      She gets there while Snow is a child, and have enough time to become a Queen and with her powers she made quite a reputation of her.

      -ALICE VISITS WONDERLAND AS A CHILD

      Alice came from a Victorian Land that runs by the same time as The Land without magic, The Enchanted Forest and Wonderland. By the time Alice gets there Cora might have been the queen for  more less Ten years (Considering that Cora met a Ten years old Snow, Snow is now in her 30's and Alice is now in her 20's)  

      - CORA SENT THE WHITE RABBIT TO CAPTURE HENRY (this is my guess)

      Given Cora cannot leave Wonderland and Jefferson is in the Enchanted Forest, the only creature that can travel through realms at will is the White Rabbit. Cora threatens the Rabbit to make him Capture Henry as a vengance because she knows Regina love him more. At this point Cora already have a Knave of Hearts.

      - ALICE MEETS THE MAD HATTER

      Alice must've met the mad hatter after his arrive, because when she return to Wonderland the White Rabbit mentions the Mad Hatter as if Alice already know him or heard about him, otherwise the Rabbit would've mentioned the Mad Hatter as someone she never knew.

      - WILL SCARLET AND ANASTASIA ARRIVE TO WONDERLAND

      Given they were strange to this land, Will would've to work as a thief for the Caterpillar to Provide a good life to Anastasia, making himself a reputation as a great thief. At some point Will might have try it to steal something from THE QUEEN OF HEARTS and ended up losing his heart, and then Cora begin to use his thief talent as an asset, maybe training him to become her new Knave of Hearts.

      - ALICE MEETS CYRUS

      Alice has already known The Queen of Hearts, the Mad Hatter and the new Knave of Hearts. She knows most of wonderland and while searching for proofs for her father she found Cyrus and fell in love with him and then travels to all Wonderland with him. In some of their travels they probably meet Will.

      - ANASTASIA GAINS POWERS

      Somehow She gets powers, with Will being kept by the Queen of Hearts (my guess) Anastasia finds herself alone in a land she doesn't know and unprotected, so she look for magic to become self suficient. Maybe she got it from Jafar because he need it a Queen he could control. 

      - CORA LEAVE WONDERLAND WITH HOOK

      Leaving Wonderland without a Ruler all the courtiers left the castle, including the previous Knave of Hearts. Now with new Powers Anastasia rise as a Queen and forget her humble begginings, freed Will and makes him her new Knave of Hearts. Seeing how Anastasia is like as a Queen, Will decide to leave her and Wonderland but not without his heart.

      - AFTER ALICE LOST CYRUS (My guess)

      After she loses Cyrus she decide to leave Wonderland for ever, but before she met again or for the first time Will. Both of them are Heartbroken and want to leave wonderland, he ask for Alice and the White rabbit's help to retrieve his heart from Cora's Vault, they have a last adventure in wonderland and the White rabbit takes Alice back to Victorian Land and Sent Will to the Enchanted forest. The Red Queen finds out Will disappearance and start a Hunt for him.

      - ALL FROM THE MAD HATTER ARRIVE TO ALICE DEPATURE FROM WONDERLAND HAPPENS IN ONE YEAR GAP.

      - REGINA CASTS THE DARK CURSE

      With Will in the Enchanted forest he is sent to Storybrooke and stays there for 28 years (I want to believe he owns The Rabbit hole Pub). the dark curse frozen the rest of the Realms including Wonderland and Victorian Land.

      Well this is how I think is wonderland timeline, maybe in following episodes we will see in detail what kind of Timeline the writers created for the show.

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    • It was implied in the pilot episode that she met the mad hatter. 

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    • Rinkai,

      I am loving your timeline. I hope the producer will adopt something similar to yours. 

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      Rinkai,

      I am loving your timeline. I hope the producer will adopt something similar to yours. 

      Thank you :D, I love these shows and all the possibilities of their storytelling and especially this wiki because here I can share my thoughts about the show, even if I'm wrong is funny to discuss this things.

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    • Rinkai wrote:
      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      Rinkai,

      I am loving your timeline. I hope the producer will adopt something similar to yours. 

      Thank you :D, I love these shows and all the possibilities of their storytelling and especially this wiki because here I can share my thoughts about the show, even if I'm wrong is funny to discuss this things.

      Rinkai. Bear in my mind. I was probably one of the veery first member who joined this wiki. Even before a username was needed. Anyway, there had been alot of theories floating around in the past written by members in this wiki. And basd on my observation, I feel that the producers are actually reading them and use them.. ALOT OF THEM had become reality as they are adopted to the plotline. So here's hoping that maybe your plot will be picked up! :D You never know!

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    • According to me the first time Alice visits Wonderland (as a young girl) Cora was still the ruler in Wonderland. And when Alice visited Wonderland the second time (when she also met Cyrus for the first time) the Red Queen was the ruler. And now we are in her third time.

      I would make sense according to the novels. The Queen of Hearts was ruler in the first novel while the Red Queen and the White Queen ruled in the second novel. Cause I feel like people are forgetting this is her third time and she also visited when she was ~10 years old.

      And Wonderland's time apparently goes very slow, as 10 years had passed when Alice returned. She stayed there for about 10 years went back to get proof returned got thrown into the asylum and now returns again.

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    • The thing I don't get is that the Red Queen knew Alice when she was a little girl. And she's mentioned that twice already. That really screws up my timeline. I'm going to have to check the exact wording the Red Queen says. 

      Or maybe she just knew OF her as a little girl. Cause I'm assuming that Ana and Will arrived in Wonderland within 5 years before the Curse. And Alice was there round 10 years before the Curse. 

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    • Yeah I also noticed that in the latest episode, I was like: Well there goes my theory. I wonder how they are going to explain the timeline (if they even are planning to do so)

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    • I'm assuming the Red Queen and Alice were "friends" at one point. Probably during Alice's 2nd visit to Wonderland. And Alice talked about her adventures as a little girl. Like when she almost died by a Bandersnatch. 

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    • What makes this all very complicated is that the White Rabbit clearly can dig not just through dimensions about also through time (that's how he picked up the Knave in Storybrooke and then Alice in the 1800s).

      Also, the Red Queen must have known Alice as a little girl since she arrived in Wonderland with the Knave and the Knave was part of Alice's adventures her first time through. (Pretty sure it was the first time, at least?)

      It's all very confusing.

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    • Grahamburglar wrote:
      What makes this all very complicated is that the White Rabbit clearly can dig not just through dimensions about also through time (that's how he picked up the Knave in Storybrooke and then Alice in the 1800s).

      Actually, Alice's world runs concurrent with that point in time in Storybrooke. It's an eternally Victorian-era England.

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    • What I want to know is: how does Cora fit with OUaTW timeline. Was she an usurper who took Red Queen's throne for herself and the latter got it back after Cora left? Or Wonderland is divided between several Kingdoms so Cora and Anastassia were queens at the same time. But if that's true then why both of them have the same maze in their possession? I hope they will answer those questions with at least one episode with Cora in flashbacks.

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    • According to the story of Alice in wonderland there were different kingdoms. One kingdom devided in two being ruled by the chess people (Red Queen and White Queen). Then the rest of Wonderland was ruled by the Queen of Hearts and we cannot forget The Dutchess, who I think ruled over the Veil of Tears? (don't quote me). As far as the time line goes I think young alice might have met Cora and Will and Ana had to have been in wonderland while Cora ruled and alice was having her storybook adventure.

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    • QuiBears wrote:
      According to the story of Alice in wonderland there were different kingdoms. One kingdom devided in two being ruled by the chess people (Red Queen and White Queen). Then the rest of Wonderland was ruled by the Queen of Hearts and we cannot forget The Dutchess, who I think ruled over the Veil of Tears? (don't quote me). As far as the time line goes I think young alice might have met Cora and Will and Ana had to have been in wonderland while Cora ruled and alice was having her storybook adventure.

      I feel that this is the only explanation that makes sense considering I have a feeling (I hope I am wrong) that the producers are not really dilligent in chronicle-izing (is this even a word? LOL) all the events happening between OuAT and OuAt:W

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    • But if Red Queen and Queen of Hearts rule different kingdoms, why they both claim to be Wonderland's supreme powers and why they both have the same maze in their possession (unless there are two different mazes)? 

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    • All these make sesne, but the only thing that has me stumped is the curse. Alice's time woulnd't be stopped. She does even look 28 years old. How could she have ever met these people, including the knave, unless it was when she was a child. And that would mean Anastia is at least 45ish, considering she arrived in Wonderland in at leeastt her late teens. I'm really confused by all this. AND I suppose Wonderland is like the EF and there are multiple countries and whatnot considering there is more than one kingdom, assuming Anastia was in Wonderland the same time Cora was. 

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    • Unless time DID stop in Victorian England and Wonderland.

      As it stands right now, we don't know the answer to that burning question.

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    • Yes, but Mulan told Aurora how the time was stopped. Her and Phillip were aware of it. Maybe it's just a minor detail that they will ignore, though. 

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Unless time DID stop in Victorian England and Wonderland.

      That's the only logical explanation. We are only in the show's fifth episode so there is a time for writers to answer our questions. For now, everything is as illogical as Wonderland itself :)

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    • AppleTree23 wrote:
      Yes, but Mulan told Aurora how the time was stopped. Her and Phillip were aware of it. Maybe it's just a minor detail that they will ignore, though. 

      They were also spared by Cora's spell. It's possible that, lacking that protection, other worlds were frozen in time and didn't know it. Also possible that the Knave wasn't in Storybrooke from the start, and the past Wonderland events take place *during* the Dark Curse's hold on Storybrooke.

      Either is fairly plausible, at least at this point.

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    • Prince of Rascia wrote:
      But if Red Queen and Queen of Hearts rule different kingdoms, why they both claim to be Wonderland's supreme powers and why they both have the same maze in their possession (unless there are two different mazes)? 


      Because both Queens had huge Egos also in a lot of the modern stories they merge the Red Queen and The Queen of Hearts together for they were simular.

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    • Now that the first 8 eps have aired, here is what I think:

      Cora arrives in "We Are Both", Alice arrives and leaves, Wll and Anastasia arrive in "Forget Me Not" & "Heart of Stone", Alice goes back to Wondreland and meets Cyrus, Alice and Cyrus hide bottle in "Trust Me", Cyrus and Alice get a hom in "Home", Cyrus killed in "Down the Rabitt Hole", Jefferson trapped in "Hat Trick", Cora leaves in "Queen of Hearts", Dark Curse arrives, present day events.

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    • Gusey1397 wrote:
      Now that the first 8 eps have aired, here is what I think:

      Cora arrives in "We Are Both", Alice arrives and leaves, Wll and Anastasia arrive in "Forget Me Not" & "Heart of Stone", Alice goes back to Wondreland and meets Cyrus, Alice and Cyrus hide bottle in "Trust Me", Cyrus and Alice get a hom in "Home", Cyrus killed in "Down the Rabitt Hole", Jefferson trapped in "Hat Trick", Cora leaves in "Queen of Hearts", Dark Curse arrives, present day events.

      But Alice was a little girl when she met Anastasia for the first time.

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    • Oh, I didn't know that. I would say it goes Alice arrives for first time, Will & Anastasia arrive and Anastasia becomes Red Queen, Alice leaves and returns later on.

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    • We'll see it soon in the episode where Cora appears

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    • Brzoskwinia wrote:

      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Now that the first 8 eps have aired, here is what I think:

      Cora arrives in "We Are Both", Alice arrives and leaves, Wll and Anastasia arrive in "Forget Me Not" & "Heart of Stone", Alice goes back to Wondreland and meets Cyrus, Alice and Cyrus hide bottle in "Trust Me", Cyrus and Alice get a hom in "Home", Cyrus killed in "Down the Rabitt Hole", Jefferson trapped in "Hat Trick", Cora leaves in "Queen of Hearts", Dark Curse arrives, present day events.

      But Alice was a little girl when she met Anastasia for the first time.

      Actually, that's just an assumption. If you listen to all the lines where Anastasia mentions Alice as a little girl I don't think she specifically said she met her when she was that age.

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    • Eddiefunny wrote:

      Brzoskwinia wrote:


      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Now that the first 8 eps have aired, here is what I think:

      Cora arrives in "We Are Both", Alice arrives and leaves, Wll and Anastasia arrive in "Forget Me Not" & "Heart of Stone", Alice goes back to Wondreland and meets Cyrus, Alice and Cyrus hide bottle in "Trust Me", Cyrus and Alice get a hom in "Home", Cyrus killed in "Down the Rabitt Hole", Jefferson trapped in "Hat Trick", Cora leaves in "Queen of Hearts", Dark Curse arrives, present day events.

      But Alice was a little girl when she met Anastasia for the first time.
      Actually, that's just an assumption. If you listen to all the lines where Anastasia mentions Alice as a little girl I don't think she specifically said she met her when she was that age.

      Didn't she mention that she remember Alice as little girl in blue dress? Something like that.

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    • Brzoskwinia wrote:
      Eddiefunny wrote:

      Brzoskwinia wrote:



      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Now that the first 8 eps have aired, here is what I think:

      Cora arrives in "We Are Both", Alice arrives and leaves, Wll and Anastasia arrive in "Forget Me Not" & "Heart of Stone", Alice goes back to Wondreland and meets Cyrus, Alice and Cyrus hide bottle in "Trust Me", Cyrus and Alice get a hom in "Home", Cyrus killed in "Down the Rabitt Hole", Jefferson trapped in "Hat Trick", Cora leaves in "Queen of Hearts", Dark Curse arrives, present day events.

      But Alice was a little girl when she met Anastasia for the first time.
      Actually, that's just an assumption. If you listen to all the lines where Anastasia mentions Alice as a little girl I don't think she specifically said she met her when she was that age.
      Didn't she mention that she remember Alice as little girl in blue dress? Something like that.

      She indeed mentions that Alice is just like when she was wearing a little blue dress when she first entered Wonderland. However she could have heard that from other people too. Maybe during her reign she met Cora (if she wasn't already gone then), or the White Rabbit told her so, as he did know her since she was a child.

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    • This is my take on the Wonderland timeline. I'm just going to leave that here for discussion purposes. http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/User:Crash815/Wonderland_Timeline

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    • I agree with most of it. Although I think Alice and Cora have met in Alice's first visit and that Red Queen and Alice have met in Alice's second visit, just like in the novel.

      So I would place Down the Rabbit Hole before Hook arrives in Wonderland and when Hook arrives in Wonderland happen concurrently with the arrival of Will and Anastasia. As in that period of time the Red King wasn't really dominating the land, but Red Queen is.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      I agree with most of it. Although I think Alice and Cora have met in Alice's first visit and that Red Queen and Alice have met in Alice's second visit, just like in the novel.

      So I would place Down the Rabbit Hole before Hook arrives in Wonderland and when Hook arrives in Wonderland happen concurrently with the arrival of Will and Anastasia. As in that period of time the Red King wasn't really dominating the land, but Red Queen is.

      I get what you're saying... It's hard to know. I'm wondering if we're to assume that all worlds with magic (Enchanted Forest, Victorian, Wonderland, etc) were all frozen during the time of the curse, because otherwise Anastasia should be plenty older.

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    • The thing that I believe is that time goes very slow in Wonderland compared to other realms. However Alice also has met Jefferson who was there in the time of when Core was at power and Jefferson was taken by the curse, meaning that Alice's first visit was before the curse.

      But I hope things will get cleared up in the episode in which Cora will appear.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      The thing that I believe is that time goes very slow in Wonderland compared to other realms. However Alice also has met Jefferson who was there in the time of when Core was at power and Jefferson was taken by the curse, meaning that Alice's first visit was before the curse.

      But I hope things will get cleared up in the episode in which Cora will appear.

      That's true. She does mention meeting the Hatter. I suppose we could extend that logic about Wonderland going slower to the Victorian England world. Thoughts on that?


      Until told otherwise, I think I will assume that Wonderland and the Victorian world were affected by the curse, similarly to how Cora's corner of the Enchanted Forest responded: frozen.

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    • I assume they were frozen as well. Maybe lesser than the EF in that they just didn't age. Will doesn't seem surprised that Ana isn't 28 years older. It's also crossed my mind that VE was frozen as well, just more literally, and the residents of that world didn't realize it. (A lack of magical understanding may be why they didn't realize? Who knows, it's just a random thought)

      I wish we knew more about this.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      I assume they were frozen as well. Maybe lesser than the EF in that they just didn't age. Will doesn't seem surprised that Ana isn't 28 years older. It's also crossed my mind that VE was frozen as well, just more literally, and the residents of that world didn't realize it. (A lack of magical understanding may be why they didn't realize? Who knows, it's just a random thought)

      I wish we knew more about this.

      Yeah. I wish they'd establish something (even with just one line or something) in an episode. Sadly though, since I've heard this show may likely be cancelled, we won't get that, I'm guessing.

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    • Okay, I think I might be getting a handle on things, of course this is all still conjecture on my part.

      First of all, the present day begins in the first episode post storybrook curse being broken. Now, considering the Knave had to have met Alice prior to being in Storybrook (interesting he was able to leave the town with Rabbit though), this means that Alice must be 35+ years old in the present day (I originally thought she was younger)


      So here is my understanding of Alice's chronology with Wonderland:

      7 year-old Alice follows the White Rabbit and drops into Wonderland. Her original adventure plays out and is eventually returned to her world. However, she then goes back numerous times to try and bring back proof. In one of these early child trips to Wonderland when she is 7-8 years old, she meets the Knave of Hearts and gets his heart back, likely AFTER Cora has left Wonderland with Hook. (Impressive for a child, but if she didn't do this as a kid, she would have to be over 50 years old in the present day).

      I'm not sure how many to-and-fro trips Alice would have made between her world and Wonderland, but eventually she meets Cyrus much closer to the present day, which means this much has to be happening BEFORE Emma arrives in Storybrook. So then ALice has her adventures for possibly years with Cyrus until the Red Queen finally finds them and fake kills Cyrus. Alice then somehow returns to her world and is soon after put into the Insane Asylum, where she stays until the present day and the Knave breaks her out.


      Now, here is Will and Anastasia's chronology with Wonderland:

      Many years ago, Will joins Robin Hood's Merry Men to steal a Looking Glass for him and Anastasia, and they go to Wonderland BEFORE Alice first arrives in Wonderland. Anastasia plans to steal the crowned jewels but turns around and becomes engaged to the Red King. During planning for the wedding Will tries to get Anastasia back to her senses but is instead met by Cora, who takes his heart on his request. For a while, Will goes around doing who knows what to anger pretty much everyone in Wonderland so that he can get by, and becomes known as the Knave of Hearts. Somewhere down the line, he meets Alice, and she gets his heart back, but never puts it back inside him and he doesn't see Alice again. He continues living his life, probably at some point going back to the Enchanted Forest to escape his persecutors, and is caught up in the Curse when cast by Regina. When Emma breaks the curse, Will remebers his life but doesn't really care until the Rabbit appears and tells him Alice needs his help. (Again, quite interesting he was able to leave with Rabbit this way and keep his memories).


      And finally, Cyrus and Jafar's chronology with Agrabah and Wonderland:

      According to Cyrus when he was about to propose to Alice the first time, he has been a genie for 100 years or so. Before becoming a genie, Cyrus cheated at cards until it one day got his mother Amara injuried. To save her, he and his brothers get water from the Well of Wonders and it heals her completely. (I assume the effects of the water were somewhat similar to the Fountain of Youth, otherwise I don't see how she could have lived for the length to meeting Jafar, let alone be his lover without it looking very very creepy.) Cyrus and his brothers are then curse to become genies and scattered. Amara begins to dedicate her life to finding them again, but has horrible luck until Jafar comes to her, she trains him, and he helps her. Together they collect two of the three bottles and just miss Cyrus's, which is taken to Wonderland not long before the present day. Jafar turns Amara into the Serpent Staff and continues to search for the third bottle until he too ends up in Wonderland, but not before Alice already found Cyrus and hid his bottle. Jafar teams up with the Red Queen and fake kills Cyrus, and then continue to search for the bottle until the present day.

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    • Personally, I don't think he was taked by the curse. The draw look very old + he hides his heart in the wall so I guess he remembered everything from his past the whole time he was in Storybrooks. I think the rabbit or the looking-glass brought him here after Regina cast the curse.

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    • I am not sure that we can really know how old Alice is, because we don't know how time passes in Victorian England World. How does it stay Victorian England forever if time passes normally?

      Also -- and I know I'm going back to my "time travel" theory from months ago -- but we know that portals can go through time a little bit. The Mad Hatter and Regina used the apple from Snow White's sleeping curse on Henry like 28 years after Snow White bit it. I'm not saying there isn't actually a Victorian World (although I still think time travel is a better idea :P) but I think it makes up for a lot of discrepancy in the timeline.

      Arlee, I kind of agree with you -- I think the Knave was taken by the curse (it will be interesting to find out why Regina had it in for him!) but Jefferson also retained his memory while cursed. I think the Knave did as well -- maybe something about being in Wonderland for an extended time made it so the Curse affected them differently?

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    • Hm, actually, I wouldn't buy time travel. Regina reaching back to grab the Apple was one thing, but legitamte Time Travel seems like to much of an impossibility for the OUaT universe when it has the strict rule Magic cannot change the past.

      It seems even more impossible when you take into account this would also require several different instances of actually time travel throughout the series if that were the case. First little girl Alice would time travel forward and backward her original journeies to and from Wonderland in order to have met the Knave; the Knave time travel from present day back to Alice's time to get her for the story to start, and Alice going forward to get to Storybrook again to get the Kane's Heart.

      If time really is the answer to this, the only explanation I would accept is that Wonderland itself exists outside normal timeflow, but even that feels like an inconsistency. UGH! Just when I thought I had a handle on things, it gets brought straight back down into utter confusion!

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    • But Wonderland doesn't run according to the Victorian Eng. timeline. Originally days would only be minutes in the real world however here it seems like the oppoaite. Remember that the first time Alice returned 10 years had passed and after she returned the 2nd time she had an half sister.

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    • It doesn't necessarily have to change the past, if the time travel already happened: the apple fell from Snow White's hand and rolled to where Regina grabbed it into the future -- if that's what originally happened, it doesn't change the past.

      And you're putting way more time travel into things than I was suggesting. I was just suggesting that this explains Alice's apparent lack of aging while the Knave was cursed in Storybrook for 28 years. That just means the Knave left via portal and arrived at another point in the history of Victorian world

      Anyways, I thought it was a given that time flows differently in each of the worlds -- especially Wonderland. After all, Alice seems absolutely shocked that she was gone so long her father would be worried -- let alone believe she had died -- when she comes back from her first visit to Wonderland.

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    • No, for OUaT, time has seemed to flow at the same pace regardless of the world, but as they have said 'anything is possible in Wonderland.'

      In Wonderland, you literally can't turn a corner without seeing about 20 magical creatures and plants. magic fills this world to the brim, so it wouldn't actually be surprising if Wonderland's insane amount of magic that practically fills the air itself causes temporal disruptions.

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    • Time Travel is *not* happening on the show. No matter what theories one can have about the Apple, Adam Horowitz has stated that there is no time travel. I am trying to find that tweet, but I am 100% sure he said so :D

      Edit: Here, I found it :) https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/362454771283668993

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Time Travel is *not* happening on the show. No matter what theories one can have about the Apple, Adam Horowitz has stated that there is no time travel. I am trying to find that tweet, but I am 100% sure he said so :D

      Edit: Here, I found it :) https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/362454771283668993

      Yeah, but the problem with that is then that Baelfire is not centuries old, and the apple somehow appeared through a portal more than 28 years in the future. Like, there HAS to be time travel of some kind at some point, the series falls apart without it. It's not a theory. Snow White was not in Storybrook and concurrently biting the apple that gave her the sleeping curse. Rumple literally described Bae as going through a portal in time and space -- are we assuming he misspoke? Or does Rumple not know enough about magic?

      It's interesting to note, though Adam is really good about answering people's Tweets when -- in response to that Tweet -- he was asked about the apple or Baelfire's age or other time-related issues he blatantly ignores them.

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    • First off: I don't recall Rumple saying anything about time EVER. Please tell me the episode he supposedly said this so I can find it.

      Second off: Bealfire was in NEVERLAND for all that time, that's why he didn't age.

      And Third off: I'm actually pretty sure seeing the apple drop directly from when Snow bit the apple into the Queen's hand in the present day was just a clever visual scheme, the magic of the apple could easily have kept it from rotting for 28 years, and then it could fall through the portal made by the Mad Hater in present day into Regina's hand.

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    • Time travel is clearly possible, although we don't know much about it.

      Jefferson got the apple from the past. He specifically told Regina to remember the time and place where the apple was, so she thought to that moment, not just to the place the apple was.

      Rumple mentions "time and space" in "The Return", when he thinks August Booth is Baelfire. I believe it's literally "You traveled through time and space".

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    • In the episode "The Return" (1x19), Mr. Gold says to August (who he believes is his son at the time) "Ever since you crossed the barriers of time and space, in every waking moment, I've been looking for you."

      Bae was in Neverland for two centuries? I really never got that impression -- especially since the Darlings hadn't seen him since he stopped Pan from taking them. Yes, Wendy was held captive but Michael and John would have seen him. Yet, even though they would all have had to be in Neverland at the same time, Bae didn't seem to know they were there and Wendy felt she had to explain that they went to Neverland to save him. If they lived in Victorian world with Alice, that could make sense... but we've already been told that they didn't.

      Thirdly: that makes no sense. No other visual trick like that has ever been used. Besides, when Regina and Jefferson are opening the portal in "An Apple as Red as Blood", Jefferson says -- and this is also a direct quote: "Then you need to direct me to the time and place where this object exists."

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    • Were the Darling boys ever in Neverland after Bae went? I was under the impression that they weren't.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Were the Darling boys ever in Neverland after Bae went? I was under the impression that they weren't.

      The brothers went to Neverland after Wendy, where they were coerced into being Pan's slaves (basically) in order to keep Wendy alive. They aren't ancient old men because of the time they spent in Neverland.

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    • Maybe dear Pan locked them up XD

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    • I guess it's possible they got locked up between missions, but by the time the curse happened they had run enough outside-of-Neverland missions for Pan to be adults (but had certainly not aged 100 years). Remember, they failed to acquire Henry for Pan when Regina adopted him.

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    • I don't think it's so unusual they never saw Bae. Neverland is a world where you can have whatever you want, run by a guy with massive magical power. We know Bae wasn't with the group the whole time.. maybe he simply split from Pan and never went back, and then Pan got the boys... or maybe he got the boys when they were older :# I may need to rewatch those episodes, you've got me wondering too XD

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    • It's possible but if it was in the time Bae left Pan's group but was still in Wonderland, you have to wonder why super-manipulator Pan didn't send Michael and John to bring him back into the fold with some well-placed lies about protecting Wendy and what-not.

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    • Grahamburglar wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Time Travel is *not* happening on the show. No matter what theories one can have about the Apple, Adam Horowitz has stated that there is no time travel. I am trying to find that tweet, but I am 100% sure he said so :D

      Edit: Here, I found it :) https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/362454771283668993

      Yeah, but the problem with that is then that Baelfire is not centuries old, and the apple somehow appeared through a portal more than 28 years in the future. Like, there HAS to be time travel of some kind at some point, the series falls apart without it. It's not a theory. Snow White was not in Storybrook and concurrently biting the apple that gave her the sleeping curse. Rumple literally described Bae as going through a portal in time and space -- are we assuming he misspoke? Or does Rumple not know enough about magic?

      It's interesting to note, though Adam is really good about answering people's Tweets when -- in response to that Tweet -- he was asked about the apple or Baelfire's age or other time-related issues he blatantly ignores them.

      Baelfire has not time travelled, and Adam is very probably busy, I don't think he blatantly ignores people XD

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    • Grahamburglar wrote: It's possible but if it was in the time Bae left Pan's group but was still in Wonderland, you have to wonder why super-manipulator Pan didn't send Michael and John to bring him back into the fold with some well-placed lies about protecting Wendy and what-not.

      You mean Neverland? XD Idk, Pan had the power of foresight. Perhaps he saw a reason not to use Baelfire. Perhaps he just didn't want to. There's a million possible explanations.

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    • Well, Pan did say no one leaves Neverland without him allowing it but at the same time, it definitely sounded like Pan had initially tried to bring Bae back into the Lost Boys after he left.

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    • Anything is possible. Maybe he took the Darling boys after Bae left, when they were older, or maybe he took them and hid them. ::shrugs:: It could be anything XD

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    • Remember that OUAT in Wonderland next episode, "To Catch a Thief", states that Cora, while being the Queen of Hearts, ordered Will, the Knave of Hearts, to chase Alice, I suppose young-child Alice in her first trip to Wonderland. Now, since it is implied that Anastasia was Cinderella's stepsister, we need to remember that in OUAT Cinderella married the prince not many years before the Dark Curse, this would make that Anastasia and Will arrived to Wonderland not many years before the Dark Curse and Cora left shortly after meeting them when Anastasia was already the Red Queen. Then, teenager or adult Alice went back to Wonderland just before Emma arrived in Storybrooke, then she went back to Victorian England and came back to Wonderland just around when the Dark Curse was broken by Emma in Storybrooke. This fits since we know that Alice´s and Cyrus's trip to Storybrooke was during the Wriath attack that happened just after the curse was broken.

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    • It makes no sense to me. It would make Alice have more than 35 years old if she was a little girl 28 years ago. I am very sure Victorian England was frozen in time as well.

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    • But then, if Victorian England was frozen in time, Alice would remain as a child. Maybe Victorian England was not affected by the curse, instead Alice just spent a lot of time in Wonderland and that why she did not grow that much, probably because Wonderland was actually affected by the curse.

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    • Or Alice grew up before the curse was cast.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      It makes no sense to me. It would make Alice have more than 35 years old if she was a little girl 28 years ago. I am very sure Victorian England was frozen in time as well.

      Unless time moves slower there which would also explain how it stays Victorian there.

      I really don't get why you're SO against these kinds of explanations even though they are in the show. :P

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    • Grahamburglar wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      It makes no sense to me. It would make Alice have more than 35 years old if she was a little girl 28 years ago. I am very sure Victorian England was frozen in time as well.

      Unless time moves slower there which would also explain how it stays Victorian there.

      I really don't get why you're SO against these kinds of explanations even though they are in the show. :P

      What? Victorian England moving slower in time was never even hinted at, that is your personal opinion about it XD Alice was a young adult before the curse was cast, and she is the same age 28 years later, that's the way I see it :D No need for other explanations.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:

      Grahamburglar wrote:


      Killian Jones wrote:
      It makes no sense to me. It would make Alice have more than 35 years old if she was a little girl 28 years ago. I am very sure Victorian England was frozen in time as well.
      Unless time moves slower there which would also explain how it stays Victorian there.

      I really don't get why you're SO against these kinds of explanations even though they are in the show. :P

      What? Victorian England moving slower in time was never even hinted at, that is your personal opinion about it XD Alice was a young adult before the curse was cast, and she is the same age 28 years later, that's the way I see it :D No need for other explanations.

      But time being frozen in any other worlds was never hinted at either. We have no idea what happened in other lands during the curse -- you're inputting your own personal headcanon on it as well.

      But I would say the fact that the Victorian world stays in the same era of time would be an indication that time doesn't work the same way there.

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    • Okay, I see your point. But if Anastasia was in Wonderland during the curse, then at least Wonderland was frozen, because she hasn't aged, as didn't other Wonderland characters (Lizard for instance).

      I think Victorian England is not moving slower. It is just that humans do not evolve, they don't create new technlogy. That is, of course, my headcanon, I apologize if I sounded like wanting to impose my own opinion over others'. Sorry! :S

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    • I for one think that Wonderland is moving really slow. Alice went there when she was 11(?) and stayed there only for a few days maybe and then she returned back to VE and her dad said she was gone for 10 years. That must indicate that Wonderland's time is moving slower.

      Also the second time when she went to get proof of Wonderland and instead ended up falling in love with Cyrus. She was gone for a couple of years and when she returned her father had a new wife and a daughter with her.

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    • I think it's pretty evident we have to assume time was frozen in Wonderland during the curse. Here's my theory:

      1. Alice first visited Wonderland from Victorian England when she was 7 during the year before the curse. This is because it is known that Alice has met Jefferson. He was presumably only in Wonderland for a short time before the curse because Grace does not age significantly between him leaving her and Storybrooke. Cora was also still in Wonderland so they could have met.

      2. Will and Anastasia came to Wonderland around 1-2 years before the curse as we have seen Ana and Cora interact. Also Ana's scene in "The Price of Gold" took place not too long before the curse as we know, which is why this mustn't have been long before the curse. 

      3. Alice visited Wonderland at least one more time between her first visit and "Down the Rabbit Hole" and this is why she ages slower than a regular person, however faster than Anastasia. Time was frozen in Wonderland during the curse and so anyone there has not aged in 28 years. As Alice was moving between the two words, she aged whilst in VE but not in Wonderland. It is very possible Alice spent around 10 years with Cyrus, possibly making her 35 but whilst still looking around 25.

      I know everyone has their own reasoning behind the Wonderland timeline... this is just what I think happened.

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    • Maybe the time in Wonderland is so weird that it can't be explained? Maybe the writers just like the mystery behind all of it. I kinda like it too, but it is a pain in the ass for the timeline.

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    • We're not supposed to be thinking this hard about it XD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      We're not supposed to be thinking this hard about it XD

      I bet the writers aren't. :P

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    • LIke what I said in another thread, the producer did a bad job in making sure that the timeline chronologically match with the events. This also happened in LOST and I was super disappointed. 

      At this time, I would just enjoy the series as is. 

      I felt thatthe fact that made Alice came from another Victorian England world is a lazy attempt from the writers to start "fresh". And some of the explanation they gave me in their twitters seemed not to be thought carefully (i e thee is no time tavel, etc)

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    • It may seem lazy, but I do like the idea of the Victorian England world.

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    • After tonight's episode, we will find out of the Willa and Anastasia events took place before or after Cyrus and Alice met because it is the flashback of when Alice rescued the Knave's heart. Their first flashback together.

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    • I know right! That's what I am most looking forward to. Some clarity.

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    • Prince of Hearts wrote:
      It may seem lazy, but I do like the idea of the Victorian England world.

      I like the idea of a steampunk Victorian England world..... I'm still hoping it turns out to be like that. :P

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    • The Knave Will served the Queen of Hearts and she didn't force him to do anything since he asked her to rip his heart out. She put his heart in her vault and it was just there. But what's the timeframe when this took place?

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    • Revan's Exile
      Revan's Exile removed this reply because:
      Figured out my answer
      04:11, March 28, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • I'm pretty sure the rabbit takes the Knave in Storybrooke! It seems obvious he wasn't took by the curse... I mean, you see the draw? He left Storybrooke next day the curse was broken, he didn't had the time to draw it and use it like a target. It's like the Mad Hatter, but I guess they will never confirm.. They didn't have the time in the finale to talk about details.. :/

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    • What I think the Wonderland timeline is:

      Cora Arrives

      Will and Anastaia arrive and Anastasia becomes Red Queen

      Cora takes out Will's heart so Anastasia gets married

      Alice and Will meet and have adventures

      Alice and Cyrus meet and have adventures

      Cyrus gets killed

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    • That's clearly what the timeline is. The question is when that all happens in relation to other things.

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    • I have a feeling that present time in Wonderland is post wraith but pre Cora in Storybrooke.

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    • Everyone keeps saying that the Knave broke in during the Wraith attack. I watched the pilot premiere, and I'm pretty sure I saw him use a key while Cinderella and Grumpy were saying goodnight to each other, and I don't remember seeing or hearing the Wraith. If the only proof is the crater, that was obviously the Rabbit.

      Or am I missing something?...

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    • It's the windswept town. That only occurred because of the Wraith. It was also confirmed by the creators.

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    • arg this time line hurts my head, but I think I can say without a doubt at least that the white rabbit doesn't come to get Will Scarlet Until after season 4, because there's no way Will went on a journey with Alice reunited with his lost love had them be happy together just to be sent back to Storybrook and start dating Belle.

      The problem is intermingling real life time lines with that of once upon a time and coming up with an accurate Hypothesis,



      Assuming Once upon a time takes place in 2011 that means that means the Storybrook came into existence into our world in or around 1983 because of the 28 years they were cursed and the episode welcome to Storybrook the problem however is just trying to incorporate the wonderland time line into there



      Assuming the fact that these are all books or Fairytale's from our lives then Alices Adventure in Wonderland was published in 1865, now I can believe that was around the time Alice was because she was locked into an asylum, and when she visited StoryBrooke to retrieve the Knaves Heart she was dumbstruck by switches and electronics and not knowing,



      but when Alice talked to The white Rabbit at first he mentions the Mad Hatter, and we all know the Mad Hatter is Jefferson and that at some point in her life Regina Left Jefferson in Wonderland where we he became the mad Hater, give or take 10 to 20 years in Reginas life and if we were to Parallel  our worlds time line with The enchanted Forest that would be sometime in the 1970's or 1960's. Not to mention Cora was in Wonderland at that time which I want to say started at the point when Regina was somewhere between, 18 to 21 about to be married to The King.



      The Only way I can piece this All together is Either Temporal Distortion Between the worlds when traveling. I.E The rabbit can dig backwards or forwards in time and that there is no time for any world other then ours, or that Alice took place in the 1950's and the  Louis Carrol had premonitions of the adventures Of Alice form the Future and wrote the stories, though it still doesn't explain Alice being in an Asylum where they want to lobotomize her and her having no knowledge of technology.

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    • Ana and Will were already in Wonderland the first time Alice visited. They had to have been. Ana mentioned in her backstory episode that she recalled seeing a "little girl, in a blue dress, longing for her father's love". Alice as we met her as a grown up was already wearing pinks and purples and didn't wear blue again. And they crossed paths in a negative way.

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    • Megas7 -- remember that Alice isn't from the World With No Magic, though. She's from the world that's permanently in the Victorian age. We have to figure time in that world passes differently.

      As for Will returning to Storybrook and everything? From his behavior, it seems like he's already been through everything that happened in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland (though I could be wrong) and at some point we're going to learn about what happened to Anastasia and why he ended up back where he started, because they do have some explaining to do!

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    • Grahamburglar wrote:
      Megas7 -- remember that Alice isn't from the World With No Magic, though. She's from the world that's permanently in the Victorian age. We have to figure time in that world passes differently.

      As for Will returning to Storybrook and everything? From his behavior, it seems like he's already been through everything that happened in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland (though I could be wrong) and at some point we're going to learn about what happened to Anastasia and why he ended up back where he started, because they do have some explaining to do!

      Yeah, it's confirmed that Wonderland takes place at about the same time as season 2A. Which makes you wonder... why'd Will get a happy ending with Ana for about a year and then randomly come back(we know Wonderland takes place over the course of a month or two at the maximum, which leaves ALL of the missing year unaccounted for)?

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    • There could be any number of reasons Will is in Storybrooke (it might be by choice, it might be because of the curse, etc) we simply don't know enough.

      Remember that the scenes from the very end of Wonderland are years after the main events of that show-- Alice is telling her young daughter a story. Perhaps Will and Ana don't truly reconcile until some time later.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      There could be any number of reasons Will is in Storybrooke (it might be by choice, it might be because of the curse, etc) we simply don't know enough.

      Remember that the scenes from the very end of Wonderland are years after the main events of that show-- Alice is telling her young daughter a story. Perhaps Will and Ana don't truly reconcile until some time later.

      Or she simply gave them a happy ending in her book, when they didn't get one at all. Maybe they're both dead at this point. We didn't see the real Will and Ana, just Alice's drawing.

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    • That's actually something I've never considered!

      At any rate, it leaves the door open for any number of things to happen with them.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Ana and Will were already in Wonderland the first time Alice visited. They had to have been. Ana mentioned in her backstory episode that she recalled seeing a "little girl, in a blue dress, longing for her father's love". Alice as we met her as a grown up was already wearing pinks and purples and didn't wear blue again. And they crossed paths in a negative way.

      That doesn't mean that was Alice's first time. I think Will and Ana arrived in Wonderland about the time Alice left the first time because Alice was still a little girl wearing that blue dress when she returns to Wonderland to find proof for her father, so she cuould have encountered Alice when she was growing up in Wonderland. 

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      There could be any number of reasons Will is in Storybrooke (it might be by choice, it might be because of the curse, etc) we simply don't know enough.

      Remember that the scenes from the very end of Wonderland are years after the main events of that show-- Alice is telling her young daughter a story. Perhaps Will and Ana don't truly reconcile until some time later.

      Or she simply gave them a happy ending in her book, when they didn't get one at all. Maybe they're both dead at this point. We didn't see the real Will and Ana, just Alice's drawing.

      That's the most saddest ending ever.

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    • I just love that we finally felt we had the Wonderland timeline down, but then they throw the wrench in with Will in Season 4 who is persuing Belle. Hopefully, a future episode will give insight into what happened to Will and Ana after Alice and Cyrus's wedding. I do think Will and Ana eventually become the White King and White Queen of Wonderland as Alice depicted in her book though. I don't think Alice would give her friends a happy ending it they didn't actually get it.

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    • WorldHopper22 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Ana and Will were already in Wonderland the first time Alice visited. They had to have been. Ana mentioned in her backstory episode that she recalled seeing a "little girl, in a blue dress, longing for her father's love". Alice as we met her as a grown up was already wearing pinks and purples and didn't wear blue again. And they crossed paths in a negative way.
      That doesn't mean that was Alice's first time. I think Will and Ana arrived in Wonderland about the time Alice left the first time because Alice was still a little girl wearing that blue dress when she returns to Wonderland to find proof for her father, so she cuould have encountered Alice when she was growing up in Wonderland. 

      I think the age difference between Ana and Alice is similar, if not identical, to the 8 year gap between Regina and Snow. So if Alice was ten her first time, and is confirmed by her casting to be 18-20 during the main show, then 18-28 year old Ana definitely would've met her at some point. Makes sense to me.

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    • Maybe this already been adressed, but are we to assume that everyone in Wonderland was frozen for the 28 years during the Curse, in order to make the timeline work?

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    • Ry4Christ wrote:
      Maybe this already been adressed, but are we to assume that everyone in Wonderland was frozen for the 28 years during the Curse, in order to make the timeline work?

      Yes. Time froze while Alice was in the Asylum, Cyrus was in the cell, and Jafar and Ana were scheming. Otherwise, Will would not be the same age as Ana nor would he be obviously older than Alice.

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    • Shouldn't we put the arrival of child Alice after Anastasia becomes the Red Queen, since in "Heart of Stone" Ana said "I seem to remember a little girl in a blue dress wanting her father's love."?

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    • Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia

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    • Source?

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    • Although we don't know exactly if this also applies to OUaTiW, the original story of Lewis Caroll lets Alice go to Wonderland 2 times. In her first visit the Queen of Hearts was the 'main antagonist' while in Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen was.

      And it is heavily implied in Once that all the events of young Alice happened almost the same, so it is safe to assume that Alice went there twice.

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    • There's no real evidence of that, though, and in Once the two queens were contemporaneous.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia

      Didn't Alice or that creepy Doctor say in the Pilot that she disappeared multiple times over the years? She went to Wonderland tons of times. We just only saw the ending of the first trip (where presumably the events of either the Disney movie or the first novel happened), a trip where she was already grown (when she met Cyrus and Will), and the final trip (the present day events).

      Also, Ana made reference to the iconic blue dress, which I doubt Alice wore to Wonderland every time she went. So the original trip happened AFTER Ana became Queen. Although this meeting went untold in the show.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia
      Didn't Alice or that creepy Doctor say in the Pilot that she disappeared multiple times over the years? She went to Wonderland tons of times. We just only saw the ending of the first trip (where presumably the events of either the Disney movie or the first novel happened), a trip where she was already grown (when she met Cyrus and Will), and the final trip (the present day events).

      Also, Ana made reference to the iconic blue dress, which I doubt Alice wore to Wonderland every time she went. So the original trip happened AFTER Ana became Queen. Although this meeting went untold in the show.

      Exactly.  In the Pilot, it starts off with YOUNG Alice returning from her trip to Wonderland. She overheard her Father talking to Dr. Lydgate (aka creepy Dr) expressing disbelief, which in turn sparked the Young Alice to try and find proof for her Dad.

      Then there is the story, told in one set of flashbacks, of how Alice travelled back to get proof, and in the process encountered Cyrus (among other things. She also managed to help WIll get his heart back during this time.)

      The present day trip is after having lost Cyrus and thinking him dead, the White Rabbit and Will come and convince her that Cyrus is alive, starting the latest adventure.

      It was heavily implied that there were other trips as well. Because somewhere along the way, Alice ran afoul of the Red Queen (Ana), but even having just watched the series, I don't remember actually seeing that first meeting, just references to it.

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    • We know that she ran afoul of her when she was still a little girl and wearing the blue dress from the Pilot, so putting that after Anastasia's coronation makes most sense based on the available information.

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    • As for the actual poll, there are a few questions I voted against the majority on, but for the most part we all know where each event happens on the timeline.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia
      Didn't Alice or that creepy Doctor say in the Pilot that she disappeared multiple times over the years? She went to Wonderland tons of times. We just only saw the ending of the first trip (where presumably the events of either the Disney movie or the first novel happened), a trip where she was already grown (when she met Cyrus and Will), and the final trip (the present day events).

      Also, Ana made reference to the iconic blue dress, which I doubt Alice wore to Wonderland every time she went. So the original trip happened AFTER Ana became Queen. Although this meeting went untold in the show.

      Exactly.  In the Pilot, it starts off with YOUNG Alice returning from her trip to Wonderland. She overheard her Father talking to Dr. Lydgate (aka creepy Dr) expressing disbelief, which in turn sparked the Young Alice to try and find proof for her Dad.

      Then there is the story, told in one set of flashbacks, of how Alice travelled back to get proof, and in the process encountered Cyrus (among other things. She also managed to help WIll get his heart back during this time.)

      The present day trip is after having lost Cyrus and thinking him dead, the White Rabbit and Will come and convince her that Cyrus is alive, starting the latest adventure.

      It was heavily implied that there were other trips as well. Because somewhere along the way, Alice ran afoul of the Red Queen (Ana), but even having just watched the series, I don't remember actually seeing that first meeting, just references to it.

      There was alot of Alice's time in Wonderland we didn't see. Cora disliked Alice, which means she had to have a run in with her at some point, and it was implyed Alice had met Jefferson as well. Like all the stories on Once though, we won't get to see everything because there are simply too many characters, and the flashbacks have to have plot significance. We can only hope future episodes and comics can help us better understand these characters and their convolted timeline.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia
      Didn't Alice or that creepy Doctor say in the Pilot that she disappeared multiple times over the years? She went to Wonderland tons of times. We just only saw the ending of the first trip (where presumably the events of either the Disney movie or the first novel happened), a trip where she was already grown (when she met Cyrus and Will), and the final trip (the present day events).

      Also, Ana made reference to the iconic blue dress, which I doubt Alice wore to Wonderland every time she went. So the original trip happened AFTER Ana became Queen. Although this meeting went untold in the show.

      Exactly.  In the Pilot, it starts off with YOUNG Alice returning from her trip to Wonderland. She overheard her Father talking to Dr. Lydgate (aka creepy Dr) expressing disbelief, which in turn sparked the Young Alice to try and find proof for her Dad.

      Then there is the story, told in one set of flashbacks, of how Alice travelled back to get proof, and in the process encountered Cyrus (among other things. She also managed to help WIll get his heart back during this time.)

      The present day trip is after having lost Cyrus and thinking him dead, the White Rabbit and Will come and convince her that Cyrus is alive, starting the latest adventure.

      It was heavily implied that there were other trips as well. Because somewhere along the way, Alice ran afoul of the Red Queen (Ana), but even having just watched the series, I don't remember actually seeing that first meeting, just references to it.

      There was alot of Alice's time in Wonderland we didn't see. Cora disliked Alice, which means she had to have a run in with her at some point, and it was implyed Alice had met Jefferson as well. Like all the stories on Once though, we won't get to see everything because there are simply too many characters, and the flashbacks have to have plot significance. We can only hope future episodes and comics can help us better understand these characters and their convolted timeline.

      Exactly. Even after the show officially ends, Eddy & Adam can milk it for years to come by filling in gaps in all the timelines by making more comics.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Alice went twice to Wonderland when she was young. The first time Cora was the ruler the second time Anastasia
      Didn't Alice or that creepy Doctor say in the Pilot that she disappeared multiple times over the years? She went to Wonderland tons of times. We just only saw the ending of the first trip (where presumably the events of either the Disney movie or the first novel happened), a trip where she was already grown (when she met Cyrus and Will), and the final trip (the present day events).

      Also, Ana made reference to the iconic blue dress, which I doubt Alice wore to Wonderland every time she went. So the original trip happened AFTER Ana became Queen. Although this meeting went untold in the show.

      Exactly.  In the Pilot, it starts off with YOUNG Alice returning from her trip to Wonderland. She overheard her Father talking to Dr. Lydgate (aka creepy Dr) expressing disbelief, which in turn sparked the Young Alice to try and find proof for her Dad.

      Then there is the story, told in one set of flashbacks, of how Alice travelled back to get proof, and in the process encountered Cyrus (among other things. She also managed to help WIll get his heart back during this time.)

      The present day trip is after having lost Cyrus and thinking him dead, the White Rabbit and Will come and convince her that Cyrus is alive, starting the latest adventure.

      It was heavily implied that there were other trips as well. Because somewhere along the way, Alice ran afoul of the Red Queen (Ana), but even having just watched the series, I don't remember actually seeing that first meeting, just references to it.

      There was alot of Alice's time in Wonderland we didn't see. Cora disliked Alice, which means she had to have a run in with her at some point, and it was implyed Alice had met Jefferson as well. Like all the stories on Once though, we won't get to see everything because there are simply too many characters, and the flashbacks have to have plot significance. We can only hope future episodes and comics can help us better understand these characters and their convolted timeline.
      Exactly. Even after the show officially ends, Eddy & Adam can milk it for years to come by filling in gaps in all the timelines by making more comics.

      And also other spinoff shows. I'm hoping ABC gives another spinoff a chance, as an executive even admitted they think where they scheduled Wonderland was part of the ratings problem. Netflix is also doing a lot of original programming now, including new Marvel Cinimatic Universe shows (which is owned by Disney), and Once is one of the most watched shows on Netflix, I've heard, so I could see Netflix releaseing a new spin off as well (as long as ABC is okay with this).

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    • Well, according to the latest comic, the Red Queen was in Wonderland as far back as 8 years before the Curse since Grace was 2 years old during the comic's events.

      So if Anastasia IS Cinderella's step-sister the first scene of the episode The Price of Gold had to have happened 8 years before the Curse.

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    • Eddiefunny wrote:
      Well, according to the latest comic, the Red Queen was in Wonderland as far back as 8 years before the Curse since Grace was 2 years old during the comic's events.

      So if Anastasia IS Cinderella's step-sister the first scene of the episode The Price of Gold had to have happened 8 years before the Curse.

      It makes sense. Rumple told Ella the price of their deal was her first born. She probably used contraceptives for 8 years until she got pregnant. Not to mention, Alice is 18. She was 10 during her first trip to Wonderland, and we already know from dialogue that Ana met Alice in her blue dress, which was during her first trip to Wonderland, which was when she was 10.

      And it's already out?! I wanna read it so bad!

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eddiefunny wrote:
      Well, according to the latest comic, the Red Queen was in Wonderland as far back as 8 years before the Curse since Grace was 2 years old during the comic's events.

      So if Anastasia IS Cinderella's step-sister the first scene of the episode The Price of Gold had to have happened 8 years before the Curse.

      It makes sense. Rumple told Ella the price of their deal was her first born. She probably used contraceptives for 8 years until she got pregnant. Not to mention, Alice is 18. She was 10 during her first trip to Wonderland, and we already know from dialogue that Ana met Alice in her blue dress, which was during her first trip to Wonderland, which was when she was 10.

      And it's already out?! I wanna read it so bad!

      Comic is out digitally. If you want a physical copy you have to wait til April 14th.

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    • Eddiefunny wrote: Well, according to the latest comic, the Red Queen was in Wonderland as far back as 8 years before the Curse since Grace was 2 years old during the comic's events.

      So if Anastasia IS Cinderella's step-sister the first scene of the episode The Price of Gold had to have happened 8 years before the Curse.

      The only issue with this is that would make Ella 11 years old in that scene. Then again it could be referring to another Red Queen. But that does really make sense either.

      Oh man, this timeline is complicated.

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    • Or the Red Queen was the Red King's first wife? Yeah, you know....

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    • I think the Red King's first wife was Anastasia, if I remember correctly. But perhaps the king's mother was the previous Red Queen?

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    • Killian Jones wrote: I think the Red King's first wife was Anastasia, if I remember correctly. But perhaps the king's mother was the previous Red Queen?

      Oh, I thought he was previously married. Or maybe it was his mother? It couldn't be Ana at that time unless she really isn't Ella's stepsister.

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    • Or unless the March Hare's perception of time was so messed up he didn't realize the Red Queen wouldn't come to Wonderland years after that? xD Jk

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    • Or maybe Ashley thought she was 19 while Ella is actually 27? Maybe part of her unhappy ending was not being able to get drunk? lol

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Or maybe Ashley thought she was 19 while Ella is actually 27? Maybe part of her unhappy ending was not being able to get drunk? lol

      LOL! Well, technically, 19 year old girls are better off getting drunk than pregnant women, meaning whatever her age was, she shouldn't be drinking.

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    • Just to put some additional perspective on the convoluted timeline.  We know that Ella and her step-sisters went to the Ball (seperately) at the beginning of the 'Price of Gold'. And a Royal Snow and David are attending the Wedding Ball of Thomas and Ella, so the Wedding is after Snow and David defeat Regina, and probably even after they are married, meaning that the Wedding is at most a year prior to the casting of the Dark Curse.  And allowing for both Snow and Ella to be pregnant (and Snow to give birth), there has to be approximately 9 months between Ella and Thomas' Wedding and The Dark Curse.

      This would leave the only real question to be how long between the Initial Ball transpires before Ella and Thomas are married. I highly doubt it is more than a year.

      Also, when we see Ana and Will go through the Mirror ('Heart of Stone'), the marriage of Ana's stepsister to the King had already taken place, so that would put Ana becoming the Red Queen in the months preceeding Dark Curse (if Ana is Cinderella's step sister).

      So, if Ana is Ella's stepsister, then the writers are going to have to really work to reconcile all of the differences.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Just to put some additional perspective on the convoluted timeline.  We know that Ella and her step-sisters went to the Ball (seperately) at the beginning of the 'Price of Gold'. And a Royal Snow and David are attending the Wedding Ball of Thomas and Ella, so the Wedding is after Snow and David defeat Regina, and probably even after they are married, meaning that the Wedding is at most a year prior to the casting of the Dark Curse.  And allowing for both Snow and Ella to be pregnant (and Snow to give birth), there has to be approximately 9 months between Ella and Thomas' Wedding and The Dark Curse.

      This would leave the only real question to be how long between the Initial Ball transpires before Ella and Thomas are married. I highly doubt it is more than a year.

      Also, when we see Ana and Will go through the Mirror ('Heart of Stone'), the marriage of Ana's stepsister to the King had already taken place, so that would put Ana becoming the Red Queen in the months preceeding Dark Curse (if Ana is Cinderella's step sister).

      So, if Ana is Ella's stepsister, then the writers are going to have to really work to reconcile all of the differences.

      Well, to be fair, we're assuming Thomas finds Ella soon after the ball like in the fairytale. A&E could've royally screwed them over by keeping them apart for a long time, Snow & Charming style.

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    • "A long time", that could happen. But not eight years xD

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    • Maybe this confirms or at least is good evidence towards Ana =/= Cinderlla's stepsister, or the previous queen of Wonderland (at least ne half of it) was also known as the Red Queen (maybe for murder, while the Red King that married Ana was known for lust/adultery).

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    • On the other hand, we know that Ana met Alice as a little girl (because she referenced it) and later as a young woman. So the timeline is already screwy. They're not great at keeping it straight. In "Broken", Aurora says she was asleep for less than a year (without factoring in the Dark Curse), but in "Enter the Dragon" we see that she was cursed by Maleficent before Snow even became a bandit. Unless she was cursed and re-cursed (that "you're not the only one who knows about sacrifice" line of hers toward Mulan after the latter asked how she got where she was in her cursed state has never been explained).

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    • I think Ana calling her a litte girl wasn't any different than Jafar calling Ana a little girl who stole a crown. It doesn't mean she was a child, but that she was naive, imo.

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    • She said "I seem to remember a little girl in a blue dress". Since Alice literally was a little girl in a blue dress when she first met to Wonderland, that sounds like an actual memory, not a figure of speech.

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    • Maybe FTL and Wonderland time moves at a different pace? That's an easy way to explain the timeline weirdness.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Maybe FTL and Wonderland time moves at a different pace? That's an easy way to explain the timeline weirdness.


      Unfortunately, this could be an explanation. Since in the first episode Edwin said you was missing a long time that he thought she was dead. But it seem like for her time hadn't been that long. I can't remember the exact conversation. But it is possible. But I don't want it to be.

      Noneofyourbusiness:
      She said "I seem to remember a little girl in a blue dress". Since Alice literally was a little girl in a blue dress when she first met to Wonderland, that sounds like an actual memory, not a figure of speech.


      And I think people can take it figuratively. Especially, if this little girl in a blue dress becomes famous for what she did to the Queen of Hearts.

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    • Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

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    • It would've been clearer if the March Hare said the "Queen of Hearts" rather than "Red Queen".

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

      I think the point I'm trying to make is that what was only a year before the curse in FTL, could have been years and years in Wonderland. So therefore Ana and Will left a year before the curse in FTL, but were then in Wonderland for many years, but it was still less than a year in FTL. Similarly, what is a short time in Wonderland, may be a long time in VE. It's an easy explaination, and actually quite realistic, if you think about the concept of space-time, and how different worlds would run differently.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

      I think the point I'm trying to make is that what was only a year before the curse in FTL, could have been years and years in Wonderland. So therefore Ana and Will left a year before the curse in FTL, but were then in Wonderland for many years, but it was still less than a year in FTL. Similarly, what is a short time in Wonderland, may be a long time in VE. It's an easy explaination, and actually quite realistic, if you think about the concept of space-time, and how different worlds would run differently.

      It could work, but I think time supposedly runs equally between all realms/lands/worlds. I thought it was going to be true for example in Neverland the way they had Wendy describe the time she spent there, but when the Navengers went they only went for a week and it was a week in Storybrooke.

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    • Time in Wonderland, though, could be different even if time in Neverland is the same. It would explain Ana knowing Alice as a little girl and then as a young woman without having visibly aged herself, and Alice's being told by her father that she was gone longer than she realized (when she returned home to a stepmother and half-sister).

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    • Or maybe Ana does know young Alice and was in Wonderland for a years and isn't Ella's sister.

      So, let's see. Will and Ana went to Wonderland around the time Marian and Robin were together which means at least 4-5 years before the curse. Which means Ana couldn't have went to the ball, unless Cinderella was what 14-15 and then didn't get married for a few years and pregnant?

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    • Wasn't Marian's capture by Regina only a year or two before the curse? It was when Snow met Charming.

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Wasn't Marian's capture by Regina only a year or two before the curse? It was when Snow met Charming.

      More like three-four years. (I ignore what Frozen said since running away as a bandit, meeting Charming, more banditry, forgetfulness, two kingdom wars, two weddings, and a pregnancy in two years is a bit too much for me, especially since that'll mean Regina was full Evil queen reigning for like two years, Plus it wouldn't leave George's kingdom in near poverty if she stopped trading with him for like a month) Even more so, Belle was captures by Regina and the markings are for at least 3 years.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

      I think the point I'm trying to make is that what was only a year before the curse in FTL, could have been years and years in Wonderland. So therefore Ana and Will left a year before the curse in FTL, but were then in Wonderland for many years, but it was still less than a year in FTL. Similarly, what is a short time in Wonderland, may be a long time in VE. It's an easy explaination, and actually quite realistic, if you think about the concept of space-time, and how different worlds would run differently.
      It could work, but I think time supposedly runs equally between all realms/lands/worlds. I thought it was going to be true for example in Neverland the way they had Wendy describe the time she spent there, but when the Navengers went they only went for a week and it was a week in Storybrooke.

      Well, Neverland time doesn't move at all, but the other worlds time still move "normally", so that is why we see time go by in SB when the mains are in Neverland. If anything the fact that Neverland time doesn't move shows that not all worlds have the same space-time, which as I said before makes quite a bit of sense.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

      I think the point I'm trying to make is that what was only a year before the curse in FTL, could have been years and years in Wonderland. So therefore Ana and Will left a year before the curse in FTL, but were then in Wonderland for many years, but it was still less than a year in FTL. Similarly, what is a short time in Wonderland, may be a long time in VE. It's an easy explaination, and actually quite realistic, if you think about the concept of space-time, and how different worlds would run differently.
      It could work, but I think time supposedly runs equally between all realms/lands/worlds. I thought it was going to be true for example in Neverland the way they had Wendy describe the time she spent there, but when the Navengers went they only went for a week and it was a week in Storybrooke.

      Well, Neverland time doesn't move at all, but the other worlds time still move "normally", so that is why we see time go by in SB when the mains are in Neverland. If anything the fact that Neverland time doesn't move shows that not all worlds have the same space-time, which as I said before makes quite a bit of sense.

      True time stands still. But I think it stands still in the way Storybrooke stood still. I mean it had a day and a night, so time must do something. I mean time is an abstract element so it is difficult to discuss (because literally time occurred but people just stopped aging). Neverland is a dream world and doesn't work by the other world's logic (my reason for it's weird time no time thing). Wonderland is definitely in the same universe, galaxy, and likely solar system as FTL. (It was discussed in Wonderland (which is also a slightly illogical world, but only in the books and movies, not this show.)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Even if time in WL flows different than in FTL, time in FTL must flow the same way as time in... FTL XD

      The Merry Men interaction must be around EIGHT YEARS before the curse MINIMUM, if the Red Queen in the comic is Ana. I really think that either that is the King's mother or Ana is definitely not Ella's sis (her sister got married before she left Sherwood, and Ella's wedding was even after Snow's; there's no way EIGHT YEARS could have passed).

      I think the point I'm trying to make is that what was only a year before the curse in FTL, could have been years and years in Wonderland. So therefore Ana and Will left a year before the curse in FTL, but were then in Wonderland for many years, but it was still less than a year in FTL. Similarly, what is a short time in Wonderland, may be a long time in VE. It's an easy explaination, and actually quite realistic, if you think about the concept of space-time, and how different worlds would run differently.
      It could work, but I think time supposedly runs equally between all realms/lands/worlds. I thought it was going to be true for example in Neverland the way they had Wendy describe the time she spent there, but when the Navengers went they only went for a week and it was a week in Storybrooke.
      Well, Neverland time doesn't move at all, but the other worlds time still move "normally", so that is why we see time go by in SB when the mains are in Neverland. If anything the fact that Neverland time doesn't move shows that not all worlds have the same space-time, which as I said before makes quite a bit of sense.
      True time stands still. But I think it stands still in the way Storybrooke stood still. I mean it had a day and a night, so time must do something. I mean time is an abstract element so it is difficult to discuss (because literally time occurred but people just stopped aging). Neverland is a dream world and doesn't work by the other world's logic (my reason for it's weird time no time thing). Wonderland is definitely in the same universe, galaxy, and likely solar system as FTL. (It was discussed in Wonderland (which is also a slightly illogical world, but only in the books and movies, not this show.)

      See, that's where I disagree. I think each world is in it's own "universe", which is why you can only get to other ones by creating portals. To further the point of this: LWM, LWC, VE, and possibly FTL could all be alternate Earths, which means they are all in the same place in the universe, just not the same universe, if that makes sense. Going from that, it is easy to see how Wonderland's time could run different than FTL's time, for example.

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    • I would agree, but wording of "I wish you as far from here (Agrabah) as the Earth is from the Sun" and land in Wonderland's maze. Roughly 93 million miles from the Earth to the Sun, and that between FTL and Wonderland. Must be same solar system, I mean he said those words unless the wish deity (probably Nyx) was like "I haven't the slightest clue what that means" and just sent him far away.

      I like the portal ideas, but if worlds share constellations and are in universes, surely their must be other worlds out there. My theory was that their like pages in a book or books on a shelf (I mean the sorcerer is the Sorcerer/god for all the worlds, right?). The Jolly Roger also flew from EF to Neverland though that may just be with the dream world Neverland.

      So, whatever I just wrote is filler. FTL (by that quote) must be in the same solar system or galaxy as Wonderland. I mean it's not like these people travel in space.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      I would agree, but wording of "I wish you as far from here (Agrabah) as the Earth is from the Sun" and land in Wonderland's maze. Roughly 93 million miles from the Earth to the Sun, and that between FTL and Wonderland. Must be same solar system, I mean he said those words unless the wish deity (probably Nyx) was like "I haven't the slightest clue what that means" and just sent him far away.

      I like the portal ideas, but if worlds share constellations and are in universes, surely their must be other worlds out there. My theory was that their like pages in a book or books on a shelf (I mean the sorcerer is the Sorcerer/god for all the worlds, right?). The Jolly Roger also flew from EF to Neverland though that may just be with the dream world Neverland.

      So, whatever I just wrote is filler. FTL (by that quote) must be in the same solar system or galaxy as Wonderland. I mean it's not like these people travel in space.

      It's so confusing, I really wish Adam and Eddy would officially comment on all this at some point, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not sure if they are entirely sure what is where, lol.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      I would agree, but wording of "I wish you as far from here (Agrabah) as the Earth is from the Sun" and land in Wonderland's maze. Roughly 93 million miles from the Earth to the Sun, and that between FTL and Wonderland. Must be same solar system, I mean he said those words unless the wish deity (probably Nyx) was like "I haven't the slightest clue what that means" and just sent him far away.

      I like the portal ideas, but if worlds share constellations and are in universes, surely their must be other worlds out there. My theory was that their like pages in a book or books on a shelf (I mean the sorcerer is the Sorcerer/god for all the worlds, right?). The Jolly Roger also flew from EF to Neverland though that may just be with the dream world Neverland.

      So, whatever I just wrote is filler. FTL (by that quote) must be in the same solar system or galaxy as Wonderland. I mean it's not like these people travel in space.

      It's so confusing, I really wish Adam and Eddy would officially comment on all this at some point, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not sure if they are entirely sure what is where, lol.

      We'll get that as soon as we get a map of the EF (I mean we got one of useless Arendelle) or as soon as they define the difference between soulmate and true love. (We know the difference, but they don't lol. They just replaced soul mate with true love now)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Wasn't Marian's capture by Regina only a year or two before the curse? It was when Snow met Charming.

      More like three-four years. (I ignore what Frozen said since running away as a bandit, meeting Charming, more banditry, forgetfulness, two kingdom wars, two weddings, and a pregnancy in two years is a bit too much for me, especially since that'll mean Regina was full Evil queen reigning for like two years, Plus it wouldn't leave George's kingdom in near poverty if she stopped trading with him for like a month) Even more so, Belle was captures by Regina and the markings are for at least 3 years.


      Yes, but I think Snow met Charming a year or two after she began her banditry.

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Wasn't Marian's capture by Regina only a year or two before the curse? It was when Snow met Charming.

      More like three-four years. (I ignore what Frozen said since running away as a bandit, meeting Charming, more banditry, forgetfulness, two kingdom wars, two weddings, and a pregnancy in two years is a bit too much for me, especially since that'll mean Regina was full Evil queen reigning for like two years, Plus it wouldn't leave George's kingdom in near poverty if she stopped trading with him for like a month) Even more so, Belle was captures by Regina and the markings are for at least 3 years.


      Yes, but I think Snow met Charming a year or two after she began her banditry.

      I agree. The way Anna's adventures in the EF went. She met pre-Charming, went to Rumple, went home, helped Belle, was Frozen after trapping Elsa in the urn (30 years they said-28 of the curse) means two years between Anna's adventures/trapping Elsa and the DC, which makes no sense since Rumple just met Belle and Charming was not even the prince yet.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Noneofyourbusiness wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Wasn't Marian's capture by Regina only a year or two before the curse? It was when Snow met Charming.

      More like three-four years. (I ignore what Frozen said since running away as a bandit, meeting Charming, more banditry, forgetfulness, two kingdom wars, two weddings, and a pregnancy in two years is a bit too much for me, especially since that'll mean Regina was full Evil queen reigning for like two years, Plus it wouldn't leave George's kingdom in near poverty if she stopped trading with him for like a month) Even more so, Belle was captures by Regina and the markings are for at least 3 years.

      Yes, but I think Snow met Charming a year or two after she began her banditry.
      I agree. The way Anna's adventures in the EF went. She met pre-Charming, went to Rumple, went home, helped Belle, was Frozen after trapping Elsa in the urn (30 years they said-28 of the curse) means two years between Anna's adventures/trapping Elsa and the DC, which makes no sense since Rumple just met Belle and Charming was not even the prince yet.

      The Elsa/Anna/Ingrid plot is only confusing timeline-wise mainly because of Ingrid arriving in the LWM a year before the Curse. She could've easily been living among her frozen people for a few years, or maybe the portal not only moved her to another land, but another time. After all, Bae arrived in Victorian England in the 1800's, when he realistically should've arrived around the time of the American Revolution, give or take a decade.

      (Rumple is 300 as of 2011-2012 according to Bobby himself, meaning he was born 1711-1712, he seems to be around 40-50, so Bae was probably born in Rumple's 30's, meaning 1741-1751. If we add 14 years, Bae's age, to this, we get 1755-1765. And yet he landed in our world approximately 100 years later.)

      It seems like so far, they've kept time moving relative to each other everywhere (a week in Neverland is a week in LWM, 28 years in FTL is 28 years in the LWM, etc.). So the only true problems here are ages. Ana could easily be in her mid 20's now, and have been 18 or 19 when she first became Queen. That solves why she met Alice as a child, but still looks the same now. But it does seem like they'll have to retcon Cinderella's story a bit. Either that, or somehow have Ella and Thomas ripped apart for years, Belle-caught-by-the-Evil-Queen style. Because there's no way they can explain away the fact that Ana was Queen for at least 8 years before the Curse and still be Cinderella's stepsister about 2-3 years before the Curse (don't forget, Rumple kills Ella/George's fairy godmother immediately after collecting Charming for George).

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    • ^^^^^Or you're proving that Ana can't be Ella's stepsister. I was a firm believer that she was but unless there is a sleeping curse we don't know about I doubt it.

      Ingrid didn't seem to live amongst the Frozen kingdom for long since they were frozen for 30 years-28 years of the curse-1 missing year-1 year of season 1,2,3a = 0. Ingrid most likely only stayed there for a couple of weeks at most.

      Bae's age and Rumple's and stuff go at a random amount. Rumple was three hundred. Hook and Bae are two hundred. Hook was a pirate for Pan (likely after Bae) and they said it was 1819 (I think) when Hook met Ursula. Maybe they don't know when Victorian England was. They should have just sent him to Alice's world.

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    • I think we're all just overthinking it and Eddy and Adam actually have this all planned out. I mean apparently they had the whole "Cora almost married Leopold" thing planned out since season one, and Zelena since season 2. According to them, anyway. So I feel like they have everything mapped out.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I think we're all just overthinking it and Eddy and Adam actually have this all planned out. I mean apparently they had the whole "Cora almost married Leopold" thing planned out since season one, and Zelena since season 2. According to them, anyway. So I feel like they have everything mapped out.

      And I feel like they have the whole thing mapped out. The beginning and the end, and there's something in the middle. I wouldn't believe them for a second, unless by planned out they mean when planning season three. I doubt they planned the details of season three in season one, because there would be a whole lot less questions/flaws. I'm pretty sure we do put more thought then they because they present as story and we try to piece it together.

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    • True, but I rewatched BLP last night, and I found it interesting the number of little tie ins that the writers were able to incorporate in the story. (Both David and Henry having been under a sleeping curse, little things with the book, August's comment to Emma about coming a long way. and those were only a few).

      I think that they do an amazing job tieing loose ends together as well as slipping in some minor retcons.  Granted, they sometimes have to use a plot device (troll memory stones, for example), but they do manage to keep the plot hole damage to a minimum, and maintain a reasonable conherence to the entire story.

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    • Yeah, "Time heals all wounds" or something like that!

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    • I actually never pay attention to so much detail in the show. Since everything is so confusing, I have adapted my own Timeline, which makes much more sense, and changing (nothing najor) some events and years given in the show. I'm very proud of my timeline and I update it after every episode so everything in my FanFic makes much more sense.

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    • Thegreywizard wrote: I actually never pay attention to so much detail in the show. Since everything is so confusing, I have adapted my own Timeline, which makes much more sense, and changing (nothing najor) some events and years given in the show. I'm very proud of my timeline and I update it after every episode so everything in my FanFic makes much more sense.

      I was about to ask for your timeline, but lol, I'll just go along with the flow.

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    • I personally enjoy overanalyzing everything. Particularly when something is done as well as OUaT so that Overanalysis does not completely destroy the story due to all the big gaping plot holes.

      And wonderland (in and of itself) does a real nice job of maintaining inner consistency. The problem comes when we try to connect the dots to the Mother show.  But the writers do have the chance to fill some of the gaps, if they so choose. Or they could fill them with the Marvel Graphic novels.

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    • I agree. I was just going over in my head how nice Wonderland does. It is nice, compact, and no gaping holes, inconsistencies, or random magical macguffins that solve problems. Also, the EQ and Rumple replacement, Jafar and Ana, while they don't have the same impact as their others, they bring in a more realistic element. Lol, I mean both shows do have their blonde heroine and I like Alice a whole clothes horse more than Emma. "Excuse me, I have a blade!"

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    • Alice is a brunette, although Sophie Lowe is currently blond on The Returned.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      True, but I rewatched BLP last night, and I found it interesting the number of little tie ins that the writers were able to incorporate in the story. (Both David and Henry having been under a sleeping curse, little things with the book, August's comment to Emma about coming a long way. and those were only a few).

      I think that they do an amazing job tieing loose ends together as well as slipping in some minor retcons.  Granted, they sometimes have to use a plot device (troll memory stones, for example), but they do manage to keep the plot hole damage to a minimum, and maintain a reasonable conherence to the entire story.

      Agree with this. Sometimes things don't make sense or seem wrong, but really it's just they haven't got around to explaining it yet. And as far as eventually explaining it, they do a really good job with that. We just have to be patient, because sometimes it takes a while to get the explanation.

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Alice is a brunette, although Sophie Lowe is currently blond on The Returned.

      I'm sure Alice is blonde, most definitely.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      True, but I rewatched BLP last night, and I found it interesting the number of little tie ins that the writers were able to incorporate in the story. (Both David and Henry having been under a sleeping curse, little things with the book, August's comment to Emma about coming a long way. and those were only a few).

      I think that they do an amazing job tieing loose ends together as well as slipping in some minor retcons.  Granted, they sometimes have to use a plot device (troll memory stones, for example), but they do manage to keep the plot hole damage to a minimum, and maintain a reasonable conherence to the entire story.

      Agree with this. Sometimes things don't make sense or seem wrong, but really it's just they haven't got around to explaining it yet. And as far as eventually explaining it, they do a really good job with that. We just have to be patient, because sometimes it takes a while to get the explanation.

      Patience is a ....something, but airing our grievances and issues can also lead to their resolutions too. Example, Alex is a girl, and Adam admitted after sometime that they were mistaken for having a boy fill in the role. They also used the words soulmate and true love. Now they only use true love because they (A&E) struggled with responding to others questions regarding the difference and they couldn't explain it without confusion. SO, sitting back and waiting to see is nice, but can be a bad thing too. That's how we know the difference between plot hole and #KeepWatching or #nospoilers (hashtags used by the writers when something will be answered.)

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote: Nope, look, brown hair: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Alice

      Young Alice is blonde and Adult Alice is dirty blonde.

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote:
      Nope, look, brown hair: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Alice

      Her hair was blonde as a child, and dirty blonde/light brown as an adult. So technically, everybodies right.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      True, but I rewatched BLP last night, and I found it interesting the number of little tie ins that the writers were able to incorporate in the story. (Both David and Henry having been under a sleeping curse, little things with the book, August's comment to Emma about coming a long way. and those were only a few).

      I think that they do an amazing job tieing loose ends together as well as slipping in some minor retcons.  Granted, they sometimes have to use a plot device (troll memory stones, for example), but they do manage to keep the plot hole damage to a minimum, and maintain a reasonable conherence to the entire story.

      Agree with this. Sometimes things don't make sense or seem wrong, but really it's just they haven't got around to explaining it yet. And as far as eventually explaining it, they do a really good job with that. We just have to be patient, because sometimes it takes a while to get the explanation.
      Patience is a ....something, but airing our grievances and issues can also lead to their resolutions too. Example, Alex is a girl, and Adam admitted after sometime that they were mistaken for having a boy fill in the role. They also used the words soulmate and true love. Now they only use true love because they (A&E) struggled with responding to others questions regarding the difference and they couldn't explain it without confusion. SO, sitting back and waiting to see is nice, but can be a bad thing too. That's how we know the difference between plot hole and #KeepWatching or #nospoilers (hashtags used by the writers when something will be answered.)

      Naturally, the writers are all human, so they make mistakes. But they do a good job of fixing the mistakes, but sometimes it takes a while. Did they really say that about Alex Herman? lol, I didn't hear that before.

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    • I try not to get into hair arguments. Fans have argued about whether Dean Winchester's hair is dirty blond or light brown (I think the former, and Alice's looks browner to me). There's no point to it.

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    • Oh, no I was talking about Alexandra. Idk anything about Alex Herman.

      I know nothing about hair, but Alice's hair is brown with blonde, so I go with dirty blonde, lol. And Dean's hair is definitely light brown (some of the time) but then again light brown and dirty blonde are relatively close together.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Oh, no I was talking about Alexandra. Idk anything about Alex Herman.

      I know nothing about hair, but Alice's hair is brown with blonde, so I go with dirty blonde, lol. And Dean's hair is definitely light brown (some of the time) but then again light brown and dirty blonde are relatively close together.

      Alex Herman = Alexandra. :)

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      Oh, no I was talking about Alexandra. Idk anything about Alex Herman.

      I know nothing about hair, but Alice's hair is brown with blonde, so I go with dirty blonde, lol. And Dean's hair is definitely light brown (some of the time) but then again light brown and dirty blonde are relatively close together.

      Alex Herman = Alexandra. :)

      Lol! I was thinking of a male character, but the father is Mitchell (I was thinking of him) Idk, but yeah Alexandra!

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    • I loved Alice a lot more than Emma as well. :P

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    • I've been re-watching Wonderland, keeping in mind that Cora has the White Rabbit in her posession during Mother, while Will has him in To Catch A Thief as well as Anastasia becoming Red Queen at least 8 years before Jefferson becomes the Mad Hatter, which can't be more than 5 years before the Curse.

      I would say the timeline is this:

      We Are Both - Cora gets sent to Wonderland.

      Forget Me Not - Will joins the Merry Men, meaning this episode is AFTER Heart Of Gold. 4A establishes Will was with the Merry Men quite a while, but FMN only happens over the course of about a day or two. This means that Will was an apprentice Merry Man, trying to prove himself up until this episode when he was officially inducted into the group.

      Heart Of Stone - Anastasia becomes engaged to the Red King. This seemingly happens after Price of Gold due to Jabberwocky's psychological assault on Anastasia in "Dirty Little Secrets", but since this happens in the present day, Anastasia could've gone back to the EF at any point after having Percy the White Rabbit under her command. In fact, I would assume Price Of Gold happens soon after Mother and Hat Trick, and have a theory about that which ties together many loose ends, such as how Jafar and Anastasia met.

      Out Of The Past - Ana is the Red Queen for about 2 years. This is probably when Alice first comes to Wonderland in "Down The Rabbit Hole", as Ana remarks in "Heart Of Stone" that she met "a little girl, in a blue dress, wishing for her father's love" and Alice never knew her as Anastasia. Priscilla dies, and Jefferson vows to hang up his hat. This is after "Kansas", as in "The Doctor" he's still working and the slippers have already gone with Dorothy.

      Down The Rabbit Hole - Alice hears her father arguing with Dr. Lydgate and vows to go back to Wonderland to find proof. Which she does as a grown-up in "To Catch A Thief". "Who's Alice" also establishes Alice has been gone for years and Edwin believes her dead. This means Alice (who in official materials is described as being 18) spent quite a few years in Wonderland, returning a year prior to the Dark Curse. Most likely, she spent her entire teen years living in Wonderland.

      From here onward to Queen of Hearts, everything is how it's on the official Wonderland timeline (with "Mother" being immediately before "To Catch A Thief" if not concurrent with it), with both Cyrus' arrival and the position of "Hat Trick" up in the air (though Hat Trick is pretty much thought to be after "Mother" as well, while Cyrus' arrival should be in recent years since Jafar doesn't seem that much older than in "The Serpent".)

      Then it's the present-day timeline of Wonderland which is pretty straightforward.

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    • In my opinion the events happened in this order

      Jabberwocky is imprisoned

      100 years later or less

      (18 years before the Curse)

      Cora arrives in Wonderland and takes over a kingdom and becomes the Queen of Hearts (2x02)

      5 years later (13 years before the Curse)

      Anastasia and Will come to Wonderland, Anastasia leaves him and engages the Red King. She met Cora and start learning magic from her. Then she kills the King (only an opinion). Cora rips our Will's heart and he becomes her knave. (Wx05 and Wx11)

      5 years later (8 years before the Curse)

      Jefferson comes to Wonderland looking for the Clock of Evermore. He is captured by the March Hare. Priscilla arrives to rescue him, but she is killed by one of the March Hare's guards. Jefferson returns to the Enchanted Forest. (Out of the Past)

      10 year old Alice follows the White Rabbit and ends up in Wonderland, where she meets the Red Queen, the Queen of Hearts and it's almost killed by a bandersnatch. She returns to Victorian England. (Wx01)

      4 years later (4 years before the Curse)

      The events of Mother 

      2 years later (2 years before the Dark Curse)

      Cora goes to the Enchanted Forest and returns with Henry (Valet). (5x12)

      Alice returns looking for a prove. She meets Will and steals his heart from Cora. (Wx12)

      She meet Cyrus and start living adventures togehter. (Wx01)

      Regina and Jefferson arrive in Wonderland, Regina takes back her father. Jefferson is now trapped in Wonderland as the Mad Hatter. (1x17)

      A year before the Dark Curse

      The Red Queen pushes Cyrus into the Boiling Sea.

      Alice returns to England.

      Days before the Curse

      Will  adn Jefferson (only an opinion) returns to the Enchanted Forest and is taken by the Dark Curse to Storybrooke.

      Time is frozen in all magical lands 

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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