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Cora's death

  • I expected Cora to die but not by Mary Marergt tricking Regina.  Sorta strange episode.  I could see this happening from the begininng of the episode.

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    • I was alittle upset because Snow kind of killed and there really isn't any coming back from that... the guilt is going to kill her.

      and I was upset that Snow tricked Regina, I wanted Regina to kill Cora willingly not by tricking her

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    • I think what Mary Margaret did was worse, than had she killed Cora herself. She tricked Regina into killing her own mother, by playing on Regina's yearning for Cora's love.

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    • I definitely thought that Mary Marergt did the wrong, and that david was right in what he said to her. 

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    • It would be great if Snow was going to be like take that Regina but she will be like oh why did I do this blah blah, too predictable. But, there is a chance for Regina to not make the same mistake she did when Daniel died. I would really love to see her fighting against her evil side, not accepting it.

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    • In fact, it was perhaps a little cruel to make such a very known and kind fairytale character do such a radical thing, and eventually not so neccessary if Cora could have changed after she got her heart back. Such strong guilt can not be healed easily and quickly. But, we can only say it was usefull to get Regina's evil side back.

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    • Sora1954 wrote:
      But, we can only say it was usefull to get Regina's evil side back.

      Yup.... now Regina has a legitimate reason to hate Snow White.

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    • To be honest, when Snow tricked Regina into killing her own mother, I was like, oh gosh, this is The Moment Mary Margaret has been waiting to have for two seasons.

      On a side note: I hate Snow White in any other medium. Seriously, I just loathe the character. Her portrayal on OUAT is the one and only I can bear and I sort of started liking her when I saw her badass side on Snow Falls and Heart Of Darkness. From my point of view, this is the best twist she could ever get. Besides, her original self from the Grimm's fairytale had a cruel side too, she forced the Evil Queen to dance to death in burning iron shoes, so it's somewhat consistent that Mary Margaret did this.

      About Cora's death, I was craving for it. Seeing her motives in the flashback didn't change my opinion about her (she was a power-obsessed *itch and the mockery she got in her youth didn't make up for what she's done ever since). Actually, as a fervent Rumbeller the Corastiltskin part made yearn for it even more. Nevertheless, the authors made me shed a tear with the look she gave to Regina before dying. Like she did really see her daughter for the very first time. That was very touching, but I'll compromise by saying I cried for Regina.

      Also, I don't think that simply putting her heart back in her chest would have her automatically redeemed. She was evil and power-obsessed to begin with.

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    • I'm curious to know, Did Cora finally feel love and truly feel love for Regina in the seconds before she died?

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    • i hope the director will let regina to rekill cora.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      I think what Mary Margaret did was worse, than had she killed Cora herself. She tricked Regina into killing her own mother, by playing on Regina's yearning for Cora's love.

      I guess part of the reason is because Snow wasn't expecting to run into Regina in the tomb. Perhaps Snow was planning on doing it herself? What do you think?

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    • Considering the number of times regina and cora tricked snow and killed people she cared for, most recent being  johanna, i kind of liked the twist of Snow turning to a darker side.

      beside, cora killed her mother, regina killed her father, frankly  even for someone as pure as snow, her revenge was quite justified.

      And considering how they have tortured her in different ways, this little trick was a fitting punishment for regina. What will regina do? Kill MM, that will take Henry away from her (regina) forever. Create another magic  curse to   separate her from her loved ones?  She can try again, but this time Emma will be with her. And God knows what magical powers Henry got. Even rumple might side with MM because of Henry now. Neal will want to make Henry happy and Rumple  will want to see Neal happy and MM is one of Henry's fav person even before the curse broke.

      No matter what happened to her, Regina was unnecessarily cruel to Snow many times, did things to her which can no longer be justified by death of a lover MM accidentally brought. She deserves this punishment. Now she might know what Snow felt when her parents were killed of by herself and her mother.

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    • Yeah, it was kinda strange. I'm a little disappointed, I was hoping it wouldn't be Cora. They did such a great job of setting up Cora as the least sympathetic villain on the show (not that I didn't love the character) and then poof! she's gone, just as it was getting deliciously nasty!  I'm looking forward to Regina reverting back to being schemingly evil again though, and watching her and Snow square off. I wonder if there'll be a new threat - Greg perhaps?

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    • 1.124.127.231 wrote:
      Yeah, it was kinda strange. I'm a little disappointed, I was hoping it wouldn't be Cora. They did such a great job of setting up Cora as the least sympathetic villain on the show (not that I didn't love the character) and then poof! she's gone, just as it was getting deliciously nasty!  I'm looking forward to Regina reverting back to being schemingly evil again though, and watching her and Snow square off. I wonder if there'll be a new threat - Greg perhaps?

      Hook is not a very sympathetic villain, either. The guy is nothing more, than an overgrown schoolyard bully. 

      Cora's death did give Regina a legitimate reason to hate Snow White. 

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    • I'm a little sad to see her go, now obviously it didn't seem like she was ever much of a good person but she was an interesting one.  Still I'm looking forward to the aftermath with Regina who I feel bad for, for having been manipulated into killing her own mother, but again Regina herself did kill Snows father.

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    • By the way, isn't it terribly ironic how Regina killed her father by ripping his heart out of his chest, and her mother by putting it back into it? Now, that's a tragic character.

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    • What did Cora say to Regina when she was dying. I couldn't understand it. 

      Please. I nedd an answer

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    • 91.114.213.32 wrote:
      What did Cora say to Regina when she was dying. I couldn't understand it. 

      Please. I nedd an answer


      "This...would have been enough.  You...you would have been enough"

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    • Regina is totally brainwashed by Cora, why would she freaking defend that woman, the woman who ripped her life apart?

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    • 128.248.19.109 wrote:
      Regina is totally brainwashed by Cora, why would she freaking defend that woman, the woman who ripped her life apart?


      Well, Cora still her mother, Regina needs all the allies (love) she have right now.

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    • Copper5 wrote:
      I'm curious to know, Did Cora finally feel love and truly feel love for Regina in the seconds before she died?

      I believe she did.

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    • Ruby ridinghood wrote:
      Copper5 wrote:
      I'm curious to know, Did Cora finally feel love and truly feel love for Regina in the seconds before she died?
      I believe she did.


      Me too

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    • To tell you the truth, I didn't expect Cora's death to be so heartbreaking. I wanted her to die for a LONG time, but when it finally happened I actually shed a few tears.

      Also, that scene before the commercial break when Mary Margaret said Cora's name with the candle in front of Cora's heart, kind of creeped me out.

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    • When you look at  Cora's death there are a lot of parallels and even some symbolism. The death of Regina's parents, she rips out her fathers heart and put a Poisoned one into her mother. Her father whos heart only expressed love for his daughter and her mother who expressed no love because she put it somewhere else from where it was supposed to be. Cora killed Snow's mother and then Regina kills Snow's father. Cora also got her wish to some degree too (although I not really sure and if someone else can clarify this, that would be apprciated) but She whispered to a dead Eva that she was going to turn Snow's heart as black as coal. Cora's soul was made pure but she had almmost metiphorically poisoned herself too, by taking out her heart. She doesn't keep her deals or alters them so much that the promised party does not get their end and because of this it ended her life. The two dissapionted parties Cpt. Hook and Rumple. Hook because he was denied his vengence so he went after rumple, in so soing Rumple was dying and apperently the only way to save him was to kill Cora. I  still feel that YUP, tricking regina to kill her mother was the wrong on many accounts. but also snows defense stuck between a hard place and a rock. It was either kill cora or protect her family, in so doing she sacrificed the purity of her heart to place the poison of guilt in its place  (which is clearly written all over her face). Which probaly means she would be very willing to have regina take her heart to stop the blood shed. Which is slightly ironic because it also shows that in any broken promise or lie that she may do, that ends in death  that revolves around Regina she is willing to die for her actions. (circumstances which noramally involve the protection of others as well.) 

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    • ChippedCup wrote:
      91.114.213.32 wrote:
      What did Cora say to Regina when she was dying. I couldn't understand it. 

      Please. I nedd an answer

      "This...would have been enough.  You...you would have been enough"

      Proving that Cora truly loved Regina, in her final moments.

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    • The ironic thing is that Snow could have stopped Cora by doing what she told Regina she was doing. If Cora meant what she said that Regina would have been enough, then she probablywould not have killed Rumple to be the Dark One and Regina wouldn't become more evil had Cora's heart been restored without the curse. Granted, Cora did some pretty bad things while she still had her heart, but that was before she had her daughter. And Rumple still would have died.

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    • I'm not gonna lie; I'm so conflicted right now. I couldn't wait to watch the episode so I had to find out who died. When it was Cora I was all happy and I'm like YAY. Then I watched it. Screw you Once Upon a Time producers. That little moment when Cora was all cheery and her and Regina had their little mother daughter moment broke my heart. The worst bit is it was so realistic. Like they could have gone with the unrealistic Cora dies in a pot of flames or whatever but no, she had to die in her daughter's arms. I CRIED! For Cora! Are you for real? However, I do feel like Cora got what she deserves but boy did I hate the means. I mean the woman has killed countless people so bitch's time was up. I'm also glad that even though Mary Margaret killed Cora (well indirectly), she felt remorse; like I thought she was gonna be like "Look Charming/David/Taco Man the bitch killed loads of people so I killed her. No big loss" or words to that description. But now Regina's evil again which is SO awkward and you just know the season finale is gonna be another cliffhanger. Who knows what it'll bring now. I'm also confused about Rumple. I mean I'm making my little list of goods and evils so this is what I've got.

      Good:

      - Believes in Swanfire.

      - At the very least appears to love Belle and Bae.

      - Had his heart broken (not exactly a good trait but it slightly justifies some of his evil).

      Bad:

      - Basically pressured Mary Margaret into killing Cora.

      - Was all sarcy to Regina when Cora died.

      - Has a pretty horrendous track record; in fact, he's almost as bad as Cora but at least he has a shitload of pain. Cora was just disrespected.

      So you can see where I'm confused. I just wanna a make a point of saying there were so many awkward moments in this episode with Neal (anyone interested in where he got that name from; how do you go from Baelfire to Neal?) I'm not saying this episode made me consider Cora good by any means; she just mad a very bad choice. Although, the episode did prove she can never have been that good a person. Did anyone else see The Lion King moment? "And her name... is Regina *holds up baby like Simba*." I was practically singing circle of life.

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    • Look,Cora and Regina had it coming,after everything they done.Still for me Cora gets a better redeeming excuse,at least she didn't have her heart,but Regina had her heart when she did all those horrible things(that list is endless).I don't think she had the audicity to complain for anything...Snow tricked her to kill her own mother? Well her mother killed Snow's and she killed Snow's father.And my favourite,when people complain about Regina being separated from Henry for a month or two...well excuse me,but isn't she the reason Snow couldn't raise Emma?Didn't she separate Jefferson from Grace for 28 years,making Jefferson actually remember his past.And didn't she hire Hook to kill Cora and ripped her own fathers heart out so she could curse Snow for something she did when she was like 10 under Cora's manipulation? I swear I can't even feel sorry for her anymore.When did she apologized for all the bad she has done.Never and she expects people to just forgive her and calls them hypocrites cause they won't forget her evil behaviour which lasted for like 30 years.Glad Henry is away from this sociopath.

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    • 86.7.248.144 wrote:
      Did anyone else see The Lion King moment? "And her name... is Regina *holds up baby like Simba*." I was practically singing circle of life.

      I am so happy that someone else noticed that, as well :)

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    • I am glad Cora is dead. She was a heartless wench literally AND Karma was knocking at both her and Regina's door.  I am most certaintly glad for Snow. Yes in a perfect world making good decisions all the time scores you points with the morality police. However there is no self esteem like standing up for yourselves and the ones you love with success. Cora had to go, because she was a power hunger danger to everyone even Regina! Snow had to be cagey and get it done. The only reason why she feels regret is because of the moral borometer David put to her face right before she made the decision to move forward. They have tourtured this girl and she has stood strong in the face of adversity. Go'on girl avenge your mother. Don't think two times about it.

      . I love Regina on the good side but she never stays there for long. I can't wait until she gets her day too. She has the least accountability out of anyone. She's brought all this on her self yet she still finds her easy go to "blame Snow".

      What would have been powerful would have been a" You know what I've been making all the wrong choices. This was invitable."Also how can she hate Snow for her fiance's death but forgive her mother?. Both of she and Cora are/were self serving brats who needed to see swift justice.


      And Yay Mr. Gold our anti hero remains alive!!! Woohoo! :)

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    • Do we know if this is Barbara Hershey's final appearance in season 2 ? (Rose McGowan is normally set to appear in season three according to Kitsis in flashbacks with Rumpelstiltskin)

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    • I waited for Cora to die for so long, but when she actually did.. I felt pain. It wasn't the right way. Everything seemed so much better when she got her heart back inside of her. But you know.. villains die. That's kind of a general rule. And I was a lot more willing to lose Cora in a very dramatic way, than losing Rumple, because he is by far one of the best characters on the show.. at least in the flashbacks. :D

      This episode was AMAZING by the way. I loved the flashbacks.

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    • I think Cora's eleventh hour "redemption" was just as brilliant as Snow tricking Regina. They got to five emotional depth to a character that most people could not relate to. Anyways I think Cora simply started loving her daughter once she got her heart back, I don't think she actually reverted to good. She was evil to begin with.

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    • One of this show's greatest strengths is its ability to reinvent classic characters from Fairy Tales and Disney into characters that are more like real people instead of stock archtypes. Traditionally these characters are very flat and very black-and-white (good guys and bad guys are bad guys without a lot of explanation why). Good and evil still exist, make no mistake about that. These characteres have so many layers, but what ultimately defines them is their choices. They make bad choices, some more than others, but they also have chances for redemption. This episode emcompases this strong theme of the show better than all the others so far.

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    • Sora1954 wrote:
      Do we know if this is Barbara Hershey's final appearance in season 2 ? (Rose McGowan is normally set to appear in season three according to Kitsis in flashbacks with Rumpelstiltskin)

      Yes , this was Cora's last appearance during Season 2.

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    • With Cora gone does that mean we won't get an answer to how or why Henry was minisized in a box and wonderland?

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    • Phole4ever wrote:
      I was alittle upset because Snow kind of killed and there really isn't any coming back from that... the guilt is going to kill her.

      and I was upset that Snow tricked Regina, I wanted Regina to kill Cora willingly not by tricking her

      Damn it, you stole the words from my fingertips!!!... Absolutely agree, if Snow at least was brave enough to kill Cora by herself, I would have some respect for her, but no, she tricked Regina to KILL HER OWN MOTHER!!... Cora and Regina did low things to her, but she went even lower.

      Like my hubby would say, "I just like a fair fight"

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    • I'm the only one to love Cora? I really like her, precisely because she is an evil bitch, the perfect villain... I hope they explore their past more. Even I'm a Rumbeller, I loved all the scenes between Rumple and Cora, Rose has a lot of chemistry with Robert. In the first kiss scene (a couple of episodes ago) I was "Ewwww"... Then, I shipped them hard LOL

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    • Lucia Boru O'Brian wrote:
      With Cora gone does that mean we won't get an answer to how or why Henry was minisized in a box and wonderland?

      There can always be flashbacks about this.

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    • Copper5 wrote: I'm curious to know, Did Cora finally feel love and truly feel love for Regina in the seconds before she died?

      Yes, she said "It would have been enough" meaning that, if they had put her heart back in without cursng it with the candle, it would have stopped her and she would truly love Regina and, presumably, Rumple as well.

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    • 2.26.57.181 wrote:

      Copper5 wrote: I'm curious to know, Did Cora finally feel love and truly feel love for Regina in the seconds before she died?

      Yes, she said "It would have been enough" meaning that, if they had put her heart back in without cursng it with the candle, it would have stopped her and she would truly love Regina and, presumably, Rumple as well.

      I think she referred to Regina being good enough as a daughter without necessarily having to become the Queen.

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    • I am probably one of the few people who will say that I am trilled and have gain a whole new level of respect for Snow for finally standing up against Regina and Cora. Especially since you can recall that these two people did caused her own parents to die. Let face after a lifetime of being tormented by the two I can say she deserved to be angry and wanting some type of justice. It really not fair to how much pain and suffering this one woman had to go through, because of an action that her own mother caused before she was born, and the indirect action she caused as a child.

      This being said I can say I am disappointed in seeing SNow trick Regina into killing her own mother. Although it was fun to see Snow White tricking the Evil Queen, but what she was tricking Regina to do is pretty horrific . Snow already know the pain and suffering of loosing a parent, but to have Regina not only go through that pain but to be the one that caused it takes it to a new level. I think that the character should have known better and to not allow her rage toward Cora cloud her judgement.

      All and all Cora's death is pretty memorable, but if I were to learn any lesson from death it would be this you can torment and push someone up to a certain limit until that person decides to push back and rip your head off.

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    • Sage of Earth wrote:

      All and all Cora's death is pretty memorable, but if I were to learn any lesson from death it would be this you can torment and push someone up to a certain limit until that person decides to push back and rip your head off.

      Yeah, I think Regina and Cora took Snow's goodness for granted just beyond the rim when they killed Johanna. Perhaps that was Cora's plan all along, but I doubt she thought it would backfire so badly. She doesn't seem the kind of person willing to sacrifice herself for vengenance, she wanted to gain the ultimate power and live on. Bad judgement on her side.

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    • Well it wasn't Snow's finest moment,  but I forgive her. We as the audience forgive Regina, Rumple, Cora, Hook, etc.. when they show painful reasons for thier evil actions. They don't show remorse, continue to do evil again and again..but we forgive them, and cheer for them. How strong do we expect Snow to be? In a way, giving Regina another chance when they had her captured and sentenced to death was just as poor a descion as tricking her in to killing Cora. Regina pretty much admitted that she wanted to continue doing more damage when she was about to die by the arrows. If someone's out to kill you or tortures your family and freinds, for reasons such as Regina's, you have a right to put them out of thier misery. Its certainly more than justified. Snow is/(was?) also a ruler. Her actions effect a whole kingdom of people. That crown is heavy. Letting Regina die back then, would have been more honorable, good and justified then Snow tricking her and making her more misreable and giving her more reasons for revenge. She'd still have had regret cuz she's Snow White, but she'd have her prince, her child, her kingdom. Hopefully Snow learns how to be "bad" when its nessicary. I do love Regina though, I'm looking forward to more Evil Queen scenes.

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    • Fire Pearl wrote:
      Look,Cora and Regina had it coming,after everything they done.Still for me Cora gets a better redeeming excuse,at least she didn't have her heart,but Regina had her heart when she did all those horrible things(that list is endless).I don't think she had the audicity to complain for anything...Snow tricked her to kill her own mother? Well her mother killed Snow's and she killed Snow's father.And my favourite,when people complain about Regina being separated from Henry for a month or two...well excuse me,but isn't she the reason Snow couldn't raise Emma?Didn't she separate Jefferson from Grace for 28 years,making Jefferson actually remember his past.And didn't she hire Hook to kill Cora and ripped her own fathers heart out so she could curse Snow for something she did when she was like 10 under Cora's manipulation? I swear I can't even feel sorry for her anymore.When did she apologized for all the bad she has done.Never and she expects people to just forgive her and calls them hypocrites cause they won't forget her evil behaviour which lasted for like 30 years.Glad Henry is away from this sociopath.

      U stole my word.

      I  totally agree with everything you say.

      How long was regina going on to hold on to the death of her once true love an blame snow? When she was just manipulated into saying something she never should have. And it all started with her mother. Cora's manipulations, Cora tricking and almost killing snow in the beginning, killing Eva, ripping daniel's heart out? Cora had it coming. And no remorse. God knows what she meant by those last words but even till the last moment, she was more busy  being all too powerful than anything else. Rumple regretted a lot, tried to change, wanted to be a better man for Belle, agreed to give up magic for Neal. Cora did nothing.


      And to blame all those horrible things regina did solely on  Snow. Looks like she just needs a justification for her evil. And who did tell her to rip her own father's heart out? Except her own selfish need to be happy without giving two hoots for anyone else?

      Her love for Henry is also not motherly love. Its more like possession. Unless Henry admonished her, she was quite on the path to acquire him. She still wants to acquire him. Where is love? Its more like keeping a trophy.

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    • Selphie357 wrote:
      Hopefully Snow learns how to be "bad" when its nessicary. I do love Regina though, I'm looking forward to more Evil Queen scenes.

      As Rumple said, Snow has grown up now and started to think. Although he , even while dying did manage to manipulate her, first by leading snow to the candle and then carefully choosing his words. And he is no less bad, but in his defense he wanted to live.
      Although I am amazed the way she stood up to regina and calmly said those words. No matter what in this land, Snow still feared regina and regina acted like a bully to her .

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    • Snow triedto catch up with regina to stop her but she was too lat. I was sad to see happy Cora die, her and regina would have been happy together in storybrooke.

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    • hey I don't know if there is a discussion about this but in the flashback Henry(Father) was the son of a King. So how did he become a weak little man that he became. And what happened to the kingdom they ruled in that flashback. In Season 1 it showed Regina and her family living on a estate but not a palace. I am just curious how Cora and Henry (father) lost their kingdom.

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    • 67.197.45.25 wrote:
      hey I don't know if there is a discussion about this but in the flashback Henry(Father) was the son of a King. So how did he become a weak little man that he became. And what happened to the kingdom they ruled in that flashback. In Season 1 it showed Regina and her family living on a estate but not a palace. I am just curious how Cora and Henry (father) lost their kingdom.

      He wasn't the firstborn prince, so he didn't inherit the reign but was just given a mansion (which seemed quite luxurious anyways). I think Cora proclaiming Regina would become queen was just her being megalomaniac.

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    • Yes, I didn't really like that they killed Cora. I shed a  few tears when she died.

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    • Snow's actions is a pretty good ethical dilemma situation. Think about it. Cora was about to kill a defenseless man in cold blood. If a passerby with a gun happened to come on the scene and he or she shot her, only a pacifist would say that was wrong. She was an eminant threat, not just a future threat. Indeed, there really was no other way they had to stop Cora. I think if that's all there was to it, there wouldn't be much controversy. 

      On the other hand, MM does have a personal grudge so the line between her doing for personal reasons and ethical reasons is blurred to say the least. There was a reason Rumple gave her the candle and not Emma or David. 

      Also, MM did manipulate Regina into killing her own mother. That makes it worse. 

      It's pretty gutsy of the producers to do this. I hope it works out. I'm not betting against them.

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    • Well, can't say it wasn't a interesting twist. I really didn't expected this. I knew that Cora was going to die, it was obvious. But I didn't think she was going to be killed by Regina, who was tricked by Snow herself to kill her own mother. This season was hell for Regina, with Daniel return and second death, the way Henry is behaving with her, and now that.

      I mean, she has a chance to be finally happy, maybe her mother wasn't the best choice, but it's Regina logic where talking about. And when she has that chance, all she got was a laugh, and then poof ! No Cora anymore. And Snow, tricking her to kill Cora, the only person who was willing to love her.

      Now, Regina has a real reason to hate Snow. What anger me is that Snow is going to be protected and all, and Regina will be once again seen like the villain. And Rumple is going to get away with everyting he has done, like always. I mean, I can see why Regina is a villain, but Rumple was just a coward who have let down his own son.

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    • As I said before: Snow tried to catch up with Regina to stop her but she was too lat. I was sad to see happy Cora die, her and Regina would have been happy together in storybrooke. so at least Snow tried!!!

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    • 90.34.161.94 wrote:
      Well, can't say it wasn't a interesting twist. I really didn't expected this. I knew that Cora was going to die, it was obvious. But I didn't think she was going to be killed by Regina, who was tricked by Snow herself to kill her own mother. This season was hell for Regina, with Daniel return and second death, the way Henry is behaving with her, and now that.

      I mean, she has a chance to be finally happy, maybe her mother wasn't the best choice, but it's Regina logic where talking about. And when she has that chance, all she got was a laugh, and then poof ! No Cora anymore. And Snow, tricking her to kill Cora, the only person who was willing to love her.

      Now, Regina has a real reason to hate Snow. What anger me is that Snow is going to be protected and all, and Regina will be once again seen like the villain. And Rumple is going to get away with everyting he has done, like always. I mean, I can see why Regina is a villain, but Rumple was just a coward who have let down his own son.

      finally happy??

      She deserves every bit of what she is getting from henry too. her "love" for henry was  possessiveness. She made others think henry was mentally sick, she made it so that no one believed him, she forced him to come to her by torturing townspeople. 

      And Henry is not her son and he would have been raised by his mother, loved by his grandparents but it did not happen because of circumstances of her doing.

      how many people regina has to kill, maim, torture to be " happy"? Snow should be protected by all. let me remind you, cora killed her mother, regina killed her father, regina took 28 yrs of her life away from her, her chance to have any happiness, raising her kid for no reason.  Regina killed her own father to be "happy". Regina separated hatter and his daughter and in a cruel joke kept hatters memories. regina locked belle up for no reason for 28 yrs, in a single secluded cell. She was this all powerful happy person for 28 yrs, how much more? And how long does she plan to  direct her hatred towards mary margaret? Frankly, Regina is evil. I like her being evil  Regina is seen as a villain coz she is, kickass at that, but she is a villain.And I simply do not get her warped logic.


      As for rumple, he has paid his prices, he still is paying his prices and yes he is coward and yes he manipulated snow. But that does not justify regina.

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    • Rubelle wrote:

      finally happy??

      She deserves every bit of what she is getting from henry too. her "love" for henry was  possessiveness. She made others think henry was mentally sick, she made it so that no one believed him, she forced him to come to her by torturing townspeople. 

      And Henry is not her son and he would have been raised by his mother, loved by his grandparents but it did not happen because of circumstances of her doing.

      So, adoptive parents are not "real" parents? 

      Sorry to say.... but Mary Margaret said, that no one would have believed Henry. She was 100% correct. Henry's stories, while they were true, were illogical. To the average adult; fairytales just that, fairytales. 

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    • Frankly, while Snow lit the Candle, Cora would have lived if Regina had not put Cora's heart back..therefore, Regina technically killed Cora by giving her her Heart back.

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    • I don't know but I had to wipe a tear away when Cora died. Before the episode I was like, just die already, but when she got her heart back I was so happy for Regina that she could finally have the love of her mother. At that moment I thought, no... this can't be happening. But it's for the better since I like Rumbelle more that Corastiltskin. Yeah I also had to wipe a tear away during the phone call... I really hoped Belle began to remember some things.

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    • Cora threatened to kill Gold... and anybody else she wants. Snow killing Cora is justifiable homicide. QED.

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    • What other choice did Snow have with Regina standing RIGHT THERE? Any other option that she had would have wound up with the deaths of her entire family, and perhaps the entire town. Snow did what she had to do in order to save thousands of people.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Rubelle wrote:

      finally happy??

      She deserves every bit of what she is getting from henry too. her "love" for henry was  possessiveness. She made others think henry was mentally sick, she made it so that no one believed him, she forced him to come to her by torturing townspeople. 

      And Henry is not her son and he would have been raised by his mother, loved by his grandparents but it did not happen because of circumstances of her doing.

      So, adoptive parents are not "real" parents? 

      Sorry to say.... but Mary Margaret said, that no one would have believed Henry. She was 100% correct. Henry's stories, while they were true, were illogical. To the average adult; fairytales just that, fairytales. 

      Did I say that? Why r you twisting my words?

      Which adoptive mother gets a child by cursing his family may I know? And how conflicted would that child feel when he finds that out?

      Its not about real or adoptive parent, its more about all the evils Regina did that formed the course of the events and her incapability to love her child.

      Her feelings for him were too much self gratification, much like her own "real" mother had for her. 

      Regina knew Henry was telling the truth. So its not no one  would have believed him. But for her own purposes she chose to  act like Henry was talking illogical nonsense and made him see a shrink.  She was not average adult, she knew very well they happened and yet she tried her best to subdue him and his freedom of thought.

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    • Yes technically Regina killed her own mother, but Snow minipulating Regina in to killing her own mother, makes it worse then if Snow just killed Cora herself. Now Regina is going to have that guilt of killing her own mother because she trusted Snow. She did try to kill Cora herself twice in the past, but I don't think Regina will think of it that way. Now its twice she trusted Snow and some one she loved died. She doesn't think of herself as the Evil queen, everyone else put the evil in there.

      Adoptive parents are certainly real parents! This situation is not a typical adoption case. In a way Henry being adopted by Regina was like a birth mom finding out her child was adopted by a mafia crime boss. Emma was put in a really difficult situation.

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    • ^^ Agree. In regina's mind there is justification for everything she does and they are all good reasons. While everything else others do are evil reason. However its funny regina will feel guilty for killing her mother when she felt mothing  like that for killing her father.


      as for the adoption case, I think you explain the situation quite well Spy, but its more like child finds out the crime boss who adopted him has been responsible for unending misery to his family and catalyst to him being orphaned as well.

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    • Holy crap on a cracker. Adoptive parents are "real" parents but who says Regina actually adopted him? He was brought to her, was he not? Henry was acquired, not adopted. Regina would've had to leave Storybrooke or outsiders come in for an actual adoption to have taken place. If you want to get technical about it.

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    • 75.138.209.196 wrote:
      Yes technically Regina killed her own mother, but Snow minipulating Regina in to killing her own mother, makes it worse then if Snow just killed Cora herself. 

      I really don't think Snow wanted Regina to kill Cora.She was going to do that herself but Regina showed up and Snow had to improvise,so Regina won't KILL her.At least Snow regretted her decision right after that,but Regina never really regretted anything she has done nor apologized,and we all know she has done a lot.And she wanted her mother dead in the first place,that's we she hired Hook and that's why she cursed the well with Gold.It's sad though,but it was a necessary evil.

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    • Everyone keeps saying that Snow was wrong, but could you imagine what Snow might have felt when everyone close to her died? First Cora killed her mother Eva and then Johanna who was very close to her. I already would have killed Cora twice.

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    • I.K. but that wasn't Snow's personality, who she was. Carming was right, she couldn't live with herself.

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      • Charming
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    • i wanted to cry when she died...poor regina :'( the guilt is going to kill snow 

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    • It seems like it should have been the other way around, with Regina manipulating Snow.

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    • what do u mean when did regina do that ?

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    • No, it just seems like rather than Snow manipulating Regina, Regina should have manipulated Snow. It fits her character better.

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    • oh ok. i cant believe that snow did that :( i think that some one is controling her or something idk but WTH snow???????

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    • Wel, it may fit Regina's character better, but she didn't want to kill Cora. And I thought if was somewhat.. nice to see a darker side of MM. Proving that she's fully capable of manipulating people, and realizing that this isn't her.

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    • i guess...

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    • Really, Dude? I don't think that seeing the dark side of MM was a good thing.

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    • well it made things more intresting... but poor snow. i mean remember the episodes where she was a good person ? Like where is that Snow white?

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    • Fire Pearl wrote:
      Look,Cora and Regina had it coming,after everything they done.Still for me Cora gets a better redeeming excuse,at least she didn't have her heart,but Regina had her heart when she did all those horrible things(that list is endless).I don't think she had the audicity to complain for anything...Snow tricked her to kill her own mother? Well her mother killed Snow's and she killed Snow's father.And my favourite,when people complain about Regina being separated from Henry for a month or two...well excuse me,but isn't she the reason Snow couldn't raise Emma?Didn't she separate Jefferson from Grace for 28 years,making Jefferson actually remember his past.And didn't she hire Hook to kill Cora and ripped her own fathers heart out so she could curse Snow for something she did when she was like 10 under Cora's manipulation? I swear I can't even feel sorry for her anymore.When did she apologized for all the bad she has done.Never and she expects people to just forgive her and calls them hypocrites cause they won't forget her evil behaviour which lasted for like 30 years.Glad Henry is away from this sociopath.

      She's not a sociopath, if she were she wouldn't be such an emotional person or be capable of love and I think she's proved more than once that she does love, very deeply in fact.

      What Snow did is much worse than Regina killing Leopold because she tricked Regina into doing it, she tricked her into thinking she was doing the right thing, she took advantage of Regina's emotional state and need for love and used it against her, I love really love Snow but what she did was wrong on so many levels....

      How could you say Regina shouldn't have the audacity to complain? killing your own mother inadvertently while trying to do the right thing for her is not something I wish for anyone, no matter the things they've done, thinking she somehow 'deserves' it and shouldn't complain is one of the sickest things I've ever heard.

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    • 163.191.202.2 wrote:
      Holy crap on a cracker. Adoptive parents are "real" parents but who says Regina actually adopted him? He was brought to her, was he not? Henry was acquired, not adopted. Regina would've had to leave Storybrooke or outsiders come in for an actual adoption to have taken place. If you want to get technical about it.


      The creators have already stated that Regina adopted him legally and that they wouldn't 'go there'

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    • 190.236.73.224 wrote:
      163.191.202.2 wrote:
      Holy crap on a cracker. Adoptive parents are "real" parents but who says Regina actually adopted him? He was brought to her, was he not? Henry was acquired, not adopted. Regina would've had to leave Storybrooke or outsiders come in for an actual adoption to have taken place. If you want to get technical about it.

      The creators have already stated that Regina adopted him legally and that they wouldn't 'go there'

      That is correct.... it was also stated in show, by both Emma and Regina.

      Emma gave up Henry, in a closed adoption. Regina was shown, on several occasions, to have contact with the outside world. Outsiders are rare in Storybrooke, but have come there before Henry's arrival. Henry was wrong, when he said, that outsiders never come to town.

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    • I'm sorry but... YES what Snow did was low, but WHAT OTHER CHOICE DID SHE HAVE WITH REGINA RIGHT THERE? Any other option that she could have had (shoving it back in Cora's body, crushing it...) disappeared with Regina there.

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Rubelle wrote:

      finally happy??

      She deserves every bit of what she is getting from henry too. her "love" for henry was  possessiveness. She made others think henry was mentally sick, she made it so that no one believed him, she forced him to come to her by torturing townspeople. 

      And Henry is not her son and he would have been raised by his mother, loved by his grandparents but it did not happen because of circumstances of her doing.

      So, adoptive parents are not "real" parents? 

      Sorry to say.... but Mary Margaret said, that no one would have believed Henry. She was 100% correct. Henry's stories, while they were true, were illogical. To the average adult; fairytales just that, fairytales. 

      Did I say that? Why r you twisting my words?

      Which adoptive mother gets a child by cursing his family may I know? And how conflicted would that child feel when he finds that out?

      Its not about real or adoptive parent, its more about all the evils Regina did that formed the course of the events and her incapability to love her child.

      Her feelings for him were too much self gratification, much like her own "real" mother had for her. 

      Regina knew Henry was telling the truth. So its not no one  would have believed him. But for her own purposes she chose to  act like Henry was talking illogical nonsense and made him see a shrink.  She was not average adult, she knew very well they happened and yet she tried her best to subdue him and his freedom of thought.

      Regina didn't get Henry by cursing his family, Emma gave him up for adoption because she couldn't take care of him, that's not on Regina but on August and Neal, they're the reason Emma gave him up, Regina never planned to adopt Henry when she cast the curse, even more if she had never done it Henry wouldn't even exist.

      How do you know she doesn't love her child? How do you know how she feels? The writers have stated time and time again that Regina DOES LOVE Henry, it's your assumption that she doesn't.
      They've also stated Henry didn't grow up knowing time wasn't passing, he didn't go to therapy for that reason, he wasn't aware of the curse until 1 month before Emma came to Storybrooke, if he went to therapy it was probably due to the fact that he was adopted and knowing someone gave him up, like MM said in the first episode he was having trouble with that, Archie did say that he was having problems with his mom because she was trying to connect with him seems like he was having adoption related problems.

      Also it seems like they used to have a good relationship according to that picture in his bedroom where he's smiling happily as Regina hugs him, and that 'For Mommy' thing.

      Once Emma arrived in Storybrooke that's when the reason for his therapy with Archie changed, she did lie to him and that was very bad but it's not to convince him or other people that he was crazy, it wasn't her plan that he felt that way, she was trying to make him doubt his believe in the curse and move on from that, she didn't do it to make others doubt him because nobody would believe something like that anyway, it wasn't about others or about subduing Henry, it was about getting him to dismiss his believe in the curse. And once we actually put ourselves in Regina's position, what would we have done? Telling Henry that yes the curse was real and she was the EQ wouldn't have really accomplished anything, Henry would have rejected her even more strongly now knowing the truth and accuse her to others saying she admitted the curse is real and they're fairytale characters, this would have brought her even more trouble because people would've believed she was the one who was crazy and they'd have taken Henry away from her and probably institutionalized her, even if that didn't happen she'd have lost Henry anyway. So it was a very complicated situation, I'm not saying that lying to him wasn't wrong but once you think it through it wasn't as if she had a lot of choices.

      On a side note, DON'T EVER SAY Regina deserved what happened to her, it was something horrible, to kill her own mother while thinking she was doing the right thing for her, what Snow did was very very wrong taking advantage of her intimate knowledge of Regina's emotional state and necessity for love, and I'm happy she's feeling guilty because that means she understands how deeply wrong her actions had been, it means she acknowledges her terrible mistake. What I'm not so thrilled about is the fandom's reaction to it, I can't believe there're people saying she 'deserves it' or that 'she had it coming' no one should have to go through that no matter what they did and saying things like that make me doubt the fandom is getting the idea, not only that, THEY'RE BECOMING COLD AND UNEMPATHETIC and is kind of worrisome.

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    • On a side note, DON'T EVER SAY Regina deserved what happened to her, it was something horrible, to kill her own mother while thinking she was doing the right thing for her, what Snow did was very very wrong taking advantage of her intimate knowledge of Regina's emotional state and necessity for love, and I'm happy she's feeling guilty because that means she understands how deeply wrong her actions had been, it means she acknowledges her terrible mistake. What I'm not so thrilled about is the fandom's reaction to it, I can't believe there're people saying she 'deserves it' or that 'she had it coming' no one should have to go through that no matter what they did and saying things like that make me doubt the fandom is getting the idea, not only that, THEY'RE BECOMING COLD AND UNEMPATHETIC and is kind of worrisome.

      Well, now, given I am a huge fan of Regina and prefer her to the Charmings... I do not think she deserved it, but seriously, what did she expect? Let's be objective, it's hypocritical to go all "bad Mary Margaret, she took advantage of poor Regina's emotional state". What did Regina and Cora do just few hours prior when they took Johanna hostage and killed her ruthlessly despite Mary Margaret giving in to their blackmailing? (Let alone all the things they did in the past). And okay, I don't expect her to just shrug and be like "been there, done that" and forgive Mary Margaret, but fans must be honest and say that Regina got a taste of her own medicine. All of this while I still love Regina and truly hope she will eventually get her own happy ending (and let's be honest, that wasn't Cora, with or without her heart).

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    • But when Regina hired Hook to kill Cora,that was okay...

      It was something horrible to kill her own mother,how about her father whom she sacrificed for blind vengeance?

      The cold and unemphatetic part of the fandom just sees Regina for the hypocrite she is.And a nice character develompent would be nice for her,not just constant let's pity Regina and justify all the &%$*% she pulled on Snow's family for 30 years.

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    • Sad yes, but in my view Regina had it coming.

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    • 190.236.73.224 wrote:
      Regina didn't get Henry by cursing his family, Emma gave him up for adoption because she couldn't take care of him, that's not on Regina but on August and Neal, they're the reason Emma gave him up, Regina never planned to adopt Henry when she cast the curse, even more if she had never done it Henry wouldn't even exist.

      How do you know she doesn't love her child? How do you know how she feels? The writers have stated time and time again that Regina DOES LOVE Henry, it's your assumption that she doesn't.
      They've also stated Henry didn't grow up knowing time wasn't passing, he didn't go to therapy for that reason, he wasn't aware of the curse until 1 month before Emma came to Storybrooke, if he went to therapy it was probably due to the fact that he was adopted and knowing someone gave him up, like MM said in the first episode he was having trouble with that, Archie did say that he was having problems with his mom because she was trying to connect with him seems like he was having adoption related problems.

      Also it seems like they used to have a good relationship according to that picture in his bedroom where he's smiling happily as Regina hugs him, and that 'For Mommy' thing.

      Once Emma arrived in Storybrooke that's when the reason for his therapy with Archie changed, she did lie to him and that was very bad but it's not to convince him or other people that he was crazy, it wasn't her plan that he felt that way, she was trying to make him doubt his believe in the curse and move on from that, she didn't do it to make others doubt him because nobody would believe something like that anyway, it wasn't about others or about subduing Henry, it was about getting him to dismiss his believe in the curse. And once we actually put ourselves in Regina's position, what would we have done? Telling Henry that yes the curse was real and she was the EQ wouldn't have really accomplished anything, Henry would have rejected her even more strongly now knowing the truth and accuse her to others saying she admitted the curse is real and they're fairytale characters, this would have brought her even more trouble because people would've believed she was the one who was crazy and they'd have taken Henry away from her and probably institutionalized her, even if that didn't happen she'd have lost Henry anyway. So it was a very complicated situation, I'm not saying that lying to him wasn't wrong but once you think it through it wasn't as if she had a lot of choices.

      On a side note, DON'T EVER SAY Regina deserved what happened to her, it was something horrible, to kill her own mother while thinking she was doing the right thing for her, what Snow did was very very wrong taking advantage of her intimate knowledge of Regina's emotional state and necessity for love, and I'm happy she's feeling guilty because that means she understands how deeply wrong her actions had been, it means she acknowledges her terrible mistake. What I'm not so thrilled about is the fandom's reaction to it, I can't believe there're people saying she 'deserves it' or that 'she had it coming' no one should have to go through that no matter what they did and saying things like that make me doubt the fandom is getting the idea, not only that, THEY'RE BECOMING COLD AND UNEMPATHETIC and is kind of worrisome.

      And why was Emma the way she was? growing up alone? Thieving for a living?  Going to jail, with no support or contact whatsover when neal left her? Why was she left alone in the world, sent by her parents through a magical door?

      True, I don't know howRegina feels, given she is a character on a television fantasy series and I am a viewer and thats the only thing I can do, assume based on what I see. I am free to form my opinion, just like you formed yours. How do you know she really truly loved him? You too are forming your opinion, like for example your sentence here. "Also it seems like they used to have a good relationship "

      Again, you form your own opinion about her trying to make him not believe in the curse. She wanted her place to be secure and she tried her best to do it, even if it means making her son not to believe it anyway. So yeah, she gives herself more importance. Also it can be argued, had she not tried her best to dissuade Henry, maybe he wouldn't have pursued his theory so doggedly.


      On a side note, DON'T EVER TELL ME WHAT TO SAY. You have the liberty to form your opinion on everything under sky including fandom and so does everyone else.

       She already killed her own father, for her own need to cast the curse to be happy so I don't get it why all of a sudden its horrible and evil of snow to manipulate her.

      Why don't you follow your advice and put yourself in Snow's place and see what choices she did have. She was proably going to kill Cora herself had Regina not interrupted her.

      And why is it horrible when Regina gets manipulated once but not when she does the manipulation, taking the advantage  of other people's limitation, their love, the  nobility of character, their binding obligations. She even manipulated henry to come to her  by torturing townspeople. And she manipulated Genie into killing his own beloved master. List is endless. She manipulated Snow even, when she made her eat the apple, knowing fully well she won't keep charming alive as promised. Oh and yes, the mother she is mourning now, she pushed her through rumple's mirror to kill her , later hired hook to kill her too.


      Snow regretted her decision immediately, ran to stop Regina even. Regina didn't even regret manipulating her dear son Henry.


      And Fandom COLD AND UNEMPATHETIC? Please read what you yourself wrote about Snow here.

      If anything, they sympathize with Regina, her willingness to change and also acknowledge the evil she does on a daily basis. There is no absolute justifcation for whatever she has been doing for so long. So yeah she had it coming .

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    • Wow Rubelle,we really are on the same wave length over here :D

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    • So it seems, on atleast in this matter :)

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    • Fire Pearl wrote:
      But when Regina hired Hook to kill Cora,that was okay...

      It was something horrible to kill her own mother,how about her father whom she sacrificed for blind vengeance?

      The cold and unemphatetic part of the fandom just sees Regina for the hypocrite she is.And a nice character develompent would be nice for her,not just constant let's pity Regina and justify all the &%$*% she pulled on Snow's family for 30 years.

      The only reason that Regina wanted her mom dead was, and I quote, "...You told me something I'll never forget.. That love is weakness. And mother, you're My weakness."

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    • Oh,I see,that makes it all right.

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    • Are you being sarcastic with me?!?!?!?!? because that's MY job!

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    • Oh yeah! and Regina loved her Father more than any thing, and yes her father trie to talk her out of it but He also told He'd do what ever made her happy you needed the heart of the thing you love most to enact thecurse)(I didn't think she was going to be able to do it and I    don't  that she thought that was going to be able to do it either. She was happy for a while before the curse was broken because sh had Henry.

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    • BTW what is the timeline of Regina sending hook to kill Cora, and her tearful confession of weakness and killing her father and releasing the curse?

      I think she gets banished, then rumple tells her about the curse and shortly he gets captured inside the cell and prepares himself to break the curse( writing emma with squid ink, how did he even manage to get it inside tht magicless cell), the regina gets the curse and tries it, goes to rumple, gets the solution kills her father, releases the curse.

      So when does she send Hook in between ? Because hook and cora just gets together when the curse hits and cora protects themselves?

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    • The episodes ur taking 'bout skip that part and go straight to the next part. If that makes sense?

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    • I know, I mean logically how does it fit in with the timeline? The curse flows immediately after regina casts it. OTOH, Family Charming goes to rumple and Gepetto start working on the cupboard around the same time.

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    • Yes but it was just how they decide to edit the episodes to fit into the time slot. They probliy didn't mean to effect the time line!

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    • I guess I am not coming out clearly. What I am trying to express is, around when would she send Hook to kil Cora and Cora will come back to FTL. from what I have seen, things run on  a pretty tight scedule. I guess oversight? Somehow the timing does not tie inß Or the curse took some time to spread.

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    • I'm confused. The main reason why Rumple headed back quickly to Storybrooke is to use magic in order to cure his wound. So why did snow use the candle if Rumple is capable of curing himself with the use of magic?

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    • Rumple was dying. He did not have enough strength in him to cure him of the magic, and as it can be seen from the dagger, his powers were vanishing quickly, and his dagger was losing his name. Also it seemed, he does not have the magic to bring himself back from the brink of death caused by the deadly poison. Beside mother daughter duo were hounding him too

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      I guess I am not coming out clearly. What I am trying to express is, around when would she send Hook to kil Cora and Cora will come back to FTL. from what I have seen, things run on  a pretty tight scedule. I guess oversight? Somehow the timing does not tie inß Or the curse took some time to spread.

      Do you mean when hook brought cora's "dead" body back?

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    • Hermione Mills wrote:
      Rubelle wrote:
      I guess I am not coming out clearly. What I am trying to express is, around when would she send Hook to kil Cora and Cora will come back to FTL. from what I have seen, things run on  a pretty tight scedule. I guess oversight? Somehow the timing does not tie inß Or the curse took some time to spread.
      Do you mean when hook brought cora's "dead" body back?

      yes. where  does that event fall ?

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    • Cora went through the mirror w/ hook (instead of the dead guy) because "1 goes in 1 comes back. In this case 2 in 2 back" and Cora pretended to be dead. I guess u already know that but. It was sort of implied in Regina's plan that she explained in the episode.

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    • Hermione Mills wrote:
      Cora went through the mirror w/ hook (instead of the dead guy) because "1 goes in 1 comes back. In this case 2 in 2 back" and Cora pretended to be dead. I guess u already know that but. It was sort of implied in Regina's plan that she explained in the episode.

      I know all these.

      What I meant, and I have been meaning this all along , when did this event happen: after the curse was cast or before it? does that mean the curse took some time to spread. Curse was cast means Henry Sr is dead and Cora is her only weakness left. But surely it would take some time for the whole Hook travelling to wonderland to happen. BEside Hook invaded her castle and there was no scene of any smoke of cast, coz then Hook would have surely known and Cora would not need to tell him that.

      If This happened before the curse was cast, how come Henry Sr had no inkling that his daughter brought his wife, presumed to be dead, in the castle.

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    • I agree with what everyone has said and I respect their feelings towards how certain things played out...but with all the "I feel sorry for Cora/Regina."..."Why did Snow turn?"...does anyone remember that Rumple was going to die? It didn't seem like any amount of magic at that time was going to keep that character alive. So as sad as it is, we still get to watch Rumple's character grow. Now, I'm not saying that anyone was thinking about him when they where making their decisions, except for Cora, but if we want this show to go on a few more seasons it's probably gonna get shady before anyone gets a happy ending.

      Cora chose to take out her heart so anything that she should have felt when it was returned is null and void. She made that decision and every other character that we love on the show has had to pay for that. Regina is a tightrope and I feel for her, I really do, but she has proven time and again that being evil is in her nature. Regardless of her mother she had a loving father and she sacrificed him for revenge so I think it's pretty safe to say that with or without her mother's unconditional love, she is capable. I also believe that heart or no heart Cora did love Regina but she loved her in that hard stern way that Kings and Queens and teachers show love. If she had married Daniel and he where killed by bandits she still would have been suceptible to wanting revenge in my opinion.

      As for Snow, no offense but no one is in fairytail land anymore. This is supposed to be the real world and I'm sorry, but she has a big family that she hasn't even had a chance to know or grow with that are constantly in danger because of Cora or Regina. So as much as I feel sorry that Henry isn't giving Regina the love everyone thinks she desearves....come on! He was isolated and kept as her personal claim to love when he has a father, mother, grandmother and a grandfather that all love him completely (not counting Rumple of course, at least not yet.) and haven't even had the chance to really get to know him. In defense of my statement I will say that if it wasn't for Rumple/Regina and the curse, Henry wouldn't even be alive so.....it is what it is. I just think that snow protected her own. She shouldn't have manipulated Regina because it's not her style and she will be broken by it, but I challenge anyone to say that she did it just to do it...It had to be done for the greater good, Cora was a threat! She was a WMD and she had to be disarmed.

      Anyways, I love reading everyones opinions and feelings on the show because we all love it and we shouldn't all agree. We watch it for how it makes us feel and thats the point. So sorry for the essay, but I don't have time to get on alot and I wanted to share my opinions cause I really liked the last couple of episodes. :)

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    • Fluteline24 wrote:
      I'm sorry but... YES what Snow did was low, but WHAT OTHER CHOICE DID SHE HAVE WITH REGINA RIGHT THERE? Any other option that she could have had (shoving it back in Cora's body, crushing it...) disappeared with Regina there.


      Thank you! Everyone's acting like it's set in stone that Snow was like "Haha, I'm gonna make it that little bit worse by making Regina do it when actually if Regina hadn't went looking for Snow or just down to the ultra creep heart chamber in general she wouldn't have caught Snow and Snow could have done the deed herself. That said, I do question if it would have worked that way.

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    • Rulle wrote:
      Hermione Mills wrote:
      Cora went through the mirror w/ hook (instead of the dead guy) because "1 goes in 1 comes back. In this case 2 in 2 back" and Cora pretended to be dead. I guess u already know that but. It was sort of implied in Regina's plan that she explained in the episode.
      I know all these.

      What I meant, and I have been meaning this all along , when did this event happen: after the curse was cast or before it? does that mean the curse took some time to spread. Curse was cast means Henry Sr is dead and Cora is her only weakness left. But surely it would take some time for the whole Hook travelling to wonderland to happen. BEside Hook invaded her castle and there was no scene of any smoke of cast, coz then Hook would have surely known and Cora would not need to tell him that.

      If This happened before the curse was cast, how come Henry Sr had no inkling that his daughter brought his wife, presumed to be dead, in the castle.

      Before Duh!

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      Hermione Mills wrote:
      Cora went through the mirror w/ hook (instead of the dead guy) because "1 goes in 1 comes back. In this case 2 in 2 back" and Cora pretended to be dead. I guess u already know that but. It was sort of implied in Regina's plan that she explained in the episode.
      I know all these.

      What I meant, and I have been meaning this all along , when did this event happen: after the curse was cast or before it? does that mean the curse took some time to spread. Curse was cast means Henry Sr is dead and Cora is her only weakness left. But surely it would take some time for the whole Hook travelling to wonderland to happen. BEside Hook invaded her castle and there was no scene of any smoke of cast, coz then Hook would have surely known and Cora would not need to tell him that.

      If This happened before the curse was cast, how come Henry Sr had no inkling that his daughter brought his wife, presumed to be dead, in the castle.


      My best guess is:

      1) Rumple visits Regina and hints to the curse.

      2) Regina crashed the wedding.

      3) Regina steals the curse from Maleficient and takes some time (about 9 months) to get everything ready.

      4) In the meantime, Regina tries to have Cora killed (part of the preparation).

      5) Regina tries to unleash the curse.

      6) She fails and visits Rumple.

      7) She kills Henry sr. and unleashes the curse successfully.

      8) Cora protects Hook and herself, everyone out of her shield is taken to Storybrooke.

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    • I feel no remorse for Cora or Regina!  I am sad to see Barbara Hershey go (Love Her!), but I love Rose McGowan, too!  Cora and Regina killed Snow's parents AND her "Nanny", who seemingly was her guardian!  Her folks were killed (in one way or another) in front of her! 

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    • If I were Snow I would get very angry at Regina for being angry at her. I then tell; "You're angry at me for killing your mother!? The one who killed your boyfriend only to ruin my life. You and Cora killed my mother, my father and Johanna. Something like that can't be simply forgiven too, I'm the one who should be angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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    • I'm disappointed that Cora was killed so early on. I was hoping they'd wait till the season finale to defeat her. However, I did feel that it was poetic to kill her with her own candle.

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    • My best guess is:

      1) Rumple visits Regina and hints to the curse.

      2) Regina crashed the wedding.

      3) Regina steals the curse from Maleficient and takes some time (about 9 months) to get everything ready.

      4) In the meantime, Regina tries to have Cora killed (part of the preparation).

      5) Regina tries to unleash the curse.

      6) She fails and visits Rumple.

      7) She kills Henry sr. and unleashes the curse successfully.

      8) Cora protects Hook and herself, everyone out of her shield is taken to Storybrooke.

      I think that's about right. The episodes covering the time between Snow and Charming taking power and the casting of the curse overlap and can be confusing. The thing to remember is those events took place over a long period of time often with months passing in between scenes. 

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    • Well, Pilot and The Thing You Love The Most both surely cover about 8-9 months (supposing that Snow got pregnant after her "official" wedding and taking int account Emma might have been born some weeks earlier). The events of The Price Of Gold and Queen Of Hearts must take place in between.

      (Actually Pilot covers an even larger time span which includes also Lady Of The Lake and The Cricket Game, but let's just start counting from the wedding, when Regina decided to cast the Curse).

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    • I thought this episode was so Sad. I feel so bad for Regina. I really hated Snow in that moment. That was a really cruel thing, tricking Regina into killing her own mother!

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Well, Pilot and The Thing You Love The Most both surely cover about 8-9 months (supposing that Snow got pregnant after her "official" wedding and taking int account Emma might have been born some weeks earlier). The events of The Price Of Gold and Queen Of Hearts must take place in between.

      (Actually Pilot covers an even larger time span which includes also Lady Of The Lake and The Cricket Game, but let's just start counting from the wedding, when Regina decided to cast the Curse).

      Timeline/Enchanted Forest page covers all that.

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    • I absolutely hate Snow for Cora's death. I was a little unhappy when Regina refused to kill Snow...

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      Considering the number of times regina and cora tricked snow and killed people she cared for, most recent being  johanna, i kind of liked the twist of Snow turning to a darker side.

      beside, cora killed her mother, regina killed her father, frankly  even for someone as pure as snow, her revenge was quite justified.

      And considering how they have tortured her in different ways, this little trick was a fitting punishment for regina. What will regina do? Kill MM, that will take Henry away from her (regina) forever. Create another magic  curse to   separate her from her loved ones?  She can try again, but this time Emma will be with her. And God knows what magical powers Henry got. Even rumple might side with MM because of Henry now. Neal will want to make Henry happy and Rumple  will want to see Neal happy and MM is one of Henry's fav person even before the curse broke.

      No matter what happened to her, Regina was unnecessarily cruel to Snow many times, did things to her which can no longer be justified by death of a lover MM accidentally brought. She deserves this punishment. Now she might know what Snow felt when her parents were killed of by herself and her mother.

      I completely agree with all of this, Regina deserves what she got and so did Cora, especially for what she did to Eva and Johanna.

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    • Rubelle wrote:


      90.34.161.94 wrote:
      Well, can't say it wasn't a interesting twist. I really didn't expected this. I knew that Cora was going to die, it was obvious. But I didn't think she was going to be killed by Regina, who was tricked by Snow herself to kill her own mother. This season was hell for Regina, with Daniel return and second death, the way Henry is behaving with her, and now that.

      I mean, she has a chance to be finally happy, maybe her mother wasn't the best choice, but it's Regina logic where talking about. And when she has that chance, all she got was a laugh, and then poof ! No Cora anymore. And Snow, tricking her to kill Cora, the only person who was willing to love her.

      Now, Regina has a real reason to hate Snow. What anger me is that Snow is going to be protected and all, and Regina will be once again seen like the villain. And Rumple is going to get away with everyting he has done, like always. I mean, I can see why Regina is a villain, but Rumple was just a coward who have let down his own son.

      finally happy??

      She deserves every bit of what she is getting from henry too. her "love" for henry was  possessiveness. She made others think henry was mentally sick, she made it so that no one believed him, she forced him to come to her by torturing townspeople. 

      And Henry is not her son and he would have been raised by his mother, loved by his grandparents but it did not happen because of circumstances of her doing.

      how many people regina has to kill, maim, torture to be " happy"? Snow should be protected by all. let me remind you, cora killed her mother, regina killed her father, regina took 28 yrs of her life away from her, her chance to have any happiness, raising her kid for no reason.  Regina killed her own father to be "happy". Regina separated hatter and his daughter and in a cruel joke kept hatters memories. regina locked belle up for no reason for 28 yrs, in a single secluded cell. She was this all powerful happy person for 28 yrs, how much more? And how long does she plan to  direct her hatred towards mary margaret? Frankly, Regina is evil. I like her being evil  Regina is seen as a villain coz she is, kickass at that, but she is a villain.And I simply do not get her warped logic.


      As for rumple, he has paid his prices, he still is paying his prices and yes he is coward and yes he manipulated snow. But that does not justify regina.

      She actually did have a reason to lock Belle up, but it wasn't a good reason. In the Fairy-Tale World she wanted to make Rumpel miserable so she locked her up and told him that she died, but yeah Regina should stop making people miserable.

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    • I think Regina fell for Snow's trick a little too easily. Don't you think so? I mean clearly Snow was up to something if she was down there in the chamber of hearts. Regina should have suspected something.

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    • Luna Watson wrote:
      I think Regina fell for Snow's trick a little too easily. Don't you think so? I mean clearly Snow was up to something if she was down there in the chamber of hearts. Regina should have suspected something.

      Would you really suspect golden-hearted Snow or clueless Mary Margaret of putting up such a plan?

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    • So many freaking comments

      Cora did some messed up stuff so she kinda sorta deserved it but I wanted her to battle

      R u mole or Regina or snow in the finale

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    • Snow didn't kill Cora for any sense of vengenace or justice.  She was convinced that if she take action Cora would become the Dark One and make Rumple's time as the Dark One seem like an episode of Sesame Street.  She was doing it to protect all worlds everywhere.

      That being said, I am not a fan of Snow White.  We've already seen her kill many many people with her own hand and is totally OK with the amount of death and destruction that is left in the wake of her search for her happy ending.  She's OK with breaking into Regina's castle and killing many of her guards (who are prolly just dudes trying to feed their famiies) with a smile on her face as she does so, yet she's upset when she kills Cora, someone who actually deserves it.

      She's self righteous and arrogant, and I can't stand her.

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    • ^^ Thats war and self preservation. Regina declared war on her, massacred villages completely if they helped snow a bit. Going by that Snow should have got herself killed right away and save all lives. But it does not work that way. People get killed in war, and those who choose the wrong side, ends up losing more. Regina's guards were all snow's father's guards . I don't know how this works, but was Snow not the rightful heir to the throne ? Then the guards all choosing Regina's side itself was wrong.

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    • I can't stand Snow either. She's such a goody goody. Her and Prince Charming always turn everything into a soap opera. But anyway, I honestly didn't want Cora to die. I acually would've preferred Rumple to die. He just doesn't make that much of an impression with me anymore (although I do like how the writer's are humanizing him when it comes to Belle). I just think that Cora's presence adds to the plot while Rumple doesn't add nor take away from it. I would've loved to see Cora and Regina's plans unfold. I also would've loved to see their relationship progress. After Cora got her heart back, she looked at Regina with such loving & tearful eyes...it really touched my heart! And it made her death all the more sad ;( It's bad enough the writers never gave Regina and Henry a real relationship (he spends more time with Emma and all the other goody goody's...it really pisses me off!). I feel like Regina can never catch a break!

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    • It was a good decision to kill off Cora. She was a great character and antoganist. When she got her hearts back and had that loving smile, you just had to cry knowing she would drop dead any second. I don't often cry watching series, but I really had to wipe a tear away. 

      I agree with Snow's current personality, it sucks. She acts very stupid, then she wants this, then she wants that. It's annoying. It irritates me too that Henry keeps calling Regina mom, and Emma by her first name, just call them both your mom, I don't really get why they don't do that. The same with Emma towards her parents. I know that she met them as MM and David, but why doesn't she start calling them mom and dad, it only will help strengten the bond between them.

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    • Wow, wow, wow, WOW! I can't believe how RUDE some people are being to Snow, Emma and Charming! They are HUMAN, and try to see the good in people. How would the reaction have been if they hadn't saved Regina during "And Straight on Til Morning"? They're attacked no matter what they do.


      It's so frustrating being a fan of theirs and seeing them attacked every day on every single freaking forum.

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    • 173.59.76.86 wrote:
      I can't stand Snow either. She's such a goody goody. Her and Prince Charming always turn everything into a soap opera. But anyway, I honestly didn't want Cora to die. I acually would've preferred Rumple to die. He just doesn't make that much of an impression with me anymore (although I do like how the writer's are humanizing him when it comes to Belle). I just think that Cora's presence adds to the plot while Rumple doesn't add nor take away from it. I would've loved to see Cora and Regina's plans unfold. I also would've loved to see their relationship progress. After Cora got her heart back, she looked at Regina with such loving & tearful eyes...it really touched my heart! And it made her death all the more sad ;( It's bad enough the writers never gave Regina and Henry a real relationship (he spends more time with Emma and all the other goody goody's...it really pisses me off!). I feel like Regina can never catch a break!

      The entire plot of the entire series is Rumple's doing.  The entire journey is started by Rumple searching for his son.  How can you say he doesn't affect the plot?  He IS the plot?

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      It was a good decision to kill off Cora. She was a great character and antoganist. When she got her hearts back and had that loving smile, you just had to cry knowing she would drop dead any second. I don't often cry watching series, but I really had to wipe a tear away. 

      I agree with Snow's current personality, it sucks. She acts very stupid, then she wants this, then she wants that. It's annoying. It irritates me too that Henry keeps calling Regina mom, and Emma by her first name, just call them both your mom, I don't really get why they don't do that. The same with Emma towards her parents. I know that she met them as MM and David, but why doesn't she start calling them mom and dad, it only will help strengten the bond between them.

      It's so easy to point out a character's weak points and what you don't like about him/her, but it makes more sense trying to place yourself in that person's shoes. Snow White is not a bad character. She's certainly someone who has a high level of morals and standards. Think of the things/people who are important to her most for her whole life. When she was young, Snow was spoiled and ignorant about the level of haughtiness in which how she treated those lesser rank or stature than her. She believed treating them like that was correct because of her entitlement as a royal, but it was her mother who instilled in her the teachings of being respectful and kind to everyone no matter their rank. It was her mother's words that helped her to turn away from the candle even though it would have given her a chance to save her mother's life. Just because Snow is a "goody goody" doesn't make her a boring or hateful character, or at least that's how I see it because she's someone who learned from a young age to always hold kindness in her heart and following that rule all throughout her life. When Mary Margaret decided to change and turn the tables on Cora, that was a growth and conflict in her character. She was starting to lean to the other side because it was frustrating for her to have always be good and kind yet it was basicaly getting her nowhere in terms of winning/defeating those who threatened her and the lives of her family. Every character has traits that depending on perception people will find redeemable or interesting and for others flat or dull. But it's not necessary to basically kamikaze a whole character's characterization just because you don't like him/her.

      As a viewer, it is also really easy to think things like, "Why didn't ___ do this? Why didn't ____ say this?" I think many viewers often forget a tv show should be watched as if the characters are real, living people who have feelings and emotions and can right or wrong decisions. So the things you see them doing or not doing is all part of the person in question. You ask why Henry doesn't directly to call Emma "mom" from the start when he first met her? I don't know how you can expect a kid who just met his birth mother to just right off the bat call her the "mom" word. As Henry said to Mr. Gold in "Manhattan", he did harbor some ill feelings about Emma having given him up, but he also explained he understood the situation better and forgave her for it. Just because Henry is a child meeting his birth mother does not make it any different than an adult adopted child meeting his or her birth parent for the first time. Do you think that person would call their birth parent "mom" or "dad" just like that? I don't think so. And as much as Henry is wrapped up in season one in thinking of Regina, his mom, as the Evil Queen, she is still his mother. She raised him. She is his legal guardian.

      Same point with why Emma doesn't call MM and David "mom" and "dad" until the very end of the finale. She's spent the whole second season adjusting to her newfound family. In  the most earliest of episodes, like "Broken" and "We Are Both" you can obviously see she is still quite uncomfortable with the sudden change and discovery. You cannot possibly expect someone to adjust 100% to having just met her parents. And no, it's not something that can be finished and done with in three episodes and all of a sudden she starts calling them "mom" and "dad"?

      In "We Are Both", what do you think Emma was crying about in the baby nursery scene? She was realizing for the first time that although it upsets her her birth parents did give her up and abandon her, they did it for good reason behind the action, and by giving their child up, Snow and Charming also had to give up their family and make sacrifices in splitting up due to the curse. Emma was getting emotional because she realized she's being put first in someone else's thoughts for once. Like any new relationship, it takes time and effort to get used to, especially for Emma. Think of Emma's character. She's spent most of her adult life shielding and hiding herself emotionally and not getting close to people. It makes perfect sense why it would take a lot more time for her to open herself up to her parents.

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    • Let's say it this way. I don't really like Mary Margeret. I like Snow very much, but MM just seems completely different from Snow. I like her for the most part, I only was pointing out what I didn't like about her.

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    • Applegirl wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      It was a good decision to kill off Cora. She was a great character and antoganist. When she got her hearts back and had that loving smile, you just had to cry knowing she would drop dead any second. I don't often cry watching series, but I really had to wipe a tear away. 

      I agree with Snow's current personality, it sucks. She acts very stupid, then she wants this, then she wants that. It's annoying. It irritates me too that Henry keeps calling Regina mom, and Emma by her first name, just call them both your mom, I don't really get why they don't do that. The same with Emma towards her parents. I know that she met them as MM and David, but why doesn't she start calling them mom and dad, it only will help strengten the bond between them.

      It's so easy to point out a character's weak points and what you don't like about him/her, but it makes more sense trying to place yourself in that person's shoes. Snow White is not a bad character. She's certainly someone who has a high level of morals and standards. Think of the things/people who are important to her most for her whole life. When she was young, Snow was spoiled and ignorant about the level of haughtiness in which how she treated those lesser rank or stature than her. She believed treating them like that was correct because of her entitlement as a royal, but it was her mother who instilled in her the teachings of being respectful and kind to everyone no matter their rank. It was her mother's words that helped her to turn away from the candle even though it would have given her a chance to save her mother's life. Just because Snow is a "goody goody" doesn't make her a boring or hateful character, or at least that's how I see it because she's someone who learned from a young age to always hold kindness in her heart and following that rule all throughout her life. When Mary Margaret decided to change and turn the tables on Cora, that was a growth and conflict in her character. She was starting to lean to the other side because it was frustrating for her to have always be good and kind yet it was basicaly getting her nowhere in terms of winning/defeating those who threatened her and the lives of her family. Every character has traits that depending on perception people will find redeemable or interesting and for others flat or dull. But it's not necessary to basically kamikaze a whole character's characterization just because you don't like him/her.

      As a viewer, it is also really easy to think things like, "Why didn't ___ do this? Why didn't ____ say this?" I think many viewers often forget a tv show should be watched as if the characters are real, living people who have feelings and emotions and can right or wrong decisions. So the things you see them doing or not doing is all part of the person in question. You ask why Henry doesn't directly to call Emma "mom" from the start when he first met her? I don't know how you can expect a kid who just met his birth mother to just right off the bat call her the "mom" word. As Henry said to Mr. Gold in "Manhattan", he did harbor some ill feelings about Emma having given him up, but he also explained he understood the situation better and forgave her for it. Just because Henry is a child meeting his birth mother does not make it any different than an adult adopted child meeting his or her birth parent for the first time. Do you think that person would call their birth parent "mom" or "dad" just like that? I don't think so. And as much as Henry is wrapped up in season one in thinking of Regina, his mom, as the Evil Queen, she is still his mother. She raised him. She is his legal guardian.

      Same point with why Emma doesn't call MM and David "mom" and "dad" until the very end of the finale. She's spent the whole second season adjusting to her newfound family. In  the most earliest of episodes, like "Broken" and "We Are Both" you can obviously see she is still quite uncomfortable with the sudden change and discovery. You cannot possibly expect someone to adjust 100% to having just met her parents. And no, it's not something that can be finished and done with in three episodes and all of a sudden she starts calling them "mom" and "dad"?

      In "We Are Both", what do you think Emma was crying about in the baby nursery scene? She was realizing for the first time that although it upsets her her birth parents did give her up and abandon her, they did it for good reason behind the action, and by giving their child up, Snow and Charming also had to give up their family and make sacrifices in splitting up due to the curse. Emma was getting emotional because she realized she's being put first in someone else's thoughts for once. Like any new relationship, it takes time and effort to get used to, especially for Emma. Think of Emma's character. She's spent most of her adult life shielding and hiding herself emotionally and not getting close to people. It makes perfect sense why it would take a lot more time for her to open herself up to her parents.

      You make a very good point. Your statements and thoughts helped me to better understand these characters. 

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